Colts sign Luck

[OlBlu]

Re: Colts sign Luck

They weren't HOF's in 1998. Oh, and Saturday didn't arrive until 1999.

Saturday will not be a hall of famer. The other two certainly will be and they were stars when Peyton arrived. All Luck has is a worn out Reggie Wayne who can't get separation any more...... ... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. CTRL+F5 reloads the whole page.

[BRushWithDeath]

Re: Colts sign Luck

Saturday will not be a hall of famer. The other two certainly will be and they were stars when Peyton arrived. All Luck has is a worn out Reggie Wayne who can't get separation any more...... ... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. CTRL+F5 reloads the whole page.

Plainly, you are wrong.

Marvin Harrison was not a star in 1998. In his two years with Jim Harbaugh, he never had a season as good as Reggie Wayne had last year with the Collins/Painter/Orlovsky triumvirate. So this "worn out" Wayne would have been the team's best WR in 1998, just as he is in 2012.

And the 1998 offensive line was not better than this "make shift" unit we've got this season. It's basically equal and if anything, Samson Satele is the most accomplished player on either team at this stage. Of course, you probably don't have a clue who that is.

I don't mind you trolling. I think it's rather cute. But if you're going to troll, at least know the facts a little bit. Because despite your track record, it is possible to troll without being so wrong that you come off looking like the ******* love child of Ernest P. Worrel and Paris Hilton.

[Kid Minneapolis]

Re: Colts sign Luck

Saturday just might make it in the Hall... guess only time will tell. He's been at the top of his position for over a decade, has a SB win, a ridiculous win-loss record over his career, won a buncha awards, 5 pro bowls, was a 4-time all-pro, and had an active role in the NFLPA.

It's an impressive resume for a Center.

[OlBlu]

Re: Colts sign Luck

Plainly, you are wrong.

Marvin Harrison was not a star in 1998. In his two years with Jim Harbaugh, he never had a season as good as Reggie Wayne had last year with the Collins/Painter/Orlovsky triumvirate. So this "worn out" Wayne would have been the team's best WR in 1998, just as he is in 2012.

And the 1998 offensive line was not better than this "make shift" unit we've got this season. It's basically equal and if anything, Samson Satele is the most accomplished player on either team at this stage. Of course, you probably don't have a clue who that is.

I don't mind you trolling. I think it's rather cute. But if you're going to troll, at least know the facts a little bit. Because despite your track record, it is possible to troll without being so wrong that you come off looking like the ******* love child of Ernest P. Worrel and Paris Hilton.

Plainly I am not wrong and I am not a troll. Fact is that Faulk in in the Hall and Marvin soon will be. Reggie Wayne numbers then were enough to already make Marvin a star. Wayne is over-the-hill and he would have been released if the Colts could have signed Garcon`. Wayne was not the best receiver last year, Garcon` was. I don't care about the numbers, Garcon` was hurt for a bit. Who got the big contract? Garcon` got it and he deserved it. Want to bet on Wayne and Garcon`number this year? ... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. CTRL+F5 reloads the whole page.

[BRushWithDeath]

Re: Colts sign Luck

I hope people in my fantasy league think Pierre Garcon is a better wide receiver than Reggie Wayne.

Unfortunately, I don't play with 11 people who need to wear a bib and a helmet whenever they get out of bed.

[PacersHomer]

Re: Colts sign Luck

It's a bummer how this part of the forum is unreadable thanks to one idiot.

[Kid Minneapolis]

Re: Colts sign Luck

I honestly think he's not trolling, simply because he makes decent posts in the Pacer section. His Colts' sentiments are just wacked, lol...

[Sollozzo]

Re: Colts sign Luck

Since OlBlu puts so much stock into "experts", here is an "expert" (Clark Judge at CBS sportsline) who believes Luck will in fact have more *immediate* success than RGIII. The reasons he gave are those that have been outlined here many times.

2. Who has more immediate success -- Andrew Luck or RG3?

Andrew Luck is the more ready of the two to step in and take over a pro huddle. He was trained in a pro-style offense at Stanford, and he thrived in it. But he doesn't have the experience around him that Griffin does in Washington. Nor does he have a head coach like Mike Shanahan, who loves to develop young quarterbacks. Still, I say Luck has more immediate success for two reasons: 1) His background in a pro-style offense and 2) the schedule. Five of Washington's first eight opponents are playoff teams, including the defending Super Bowl champions, and three of Griffin's first four starts are on the road. Now compare that to what's ahead for Luck: Three of his first four games are at home and only one of the Colts' first nine opponents made last year's playoffs -- with only two of those nine producing winning records. Then there's this: Luck's favorite receiver at Stanford, tight end Coby Fleener, is one of his targets in Indianapolis. If you're looking for the early edge -- and we are -- Luck has it.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19643034/ten-burning-questions-repeat-giants-luck-or-rg3-mile-high-manning

The schedule cannot be ignored. The Skins are not near as good as the Giants, Eagles, and Cowboys, teams they have to play a combined 6 games against each season. The Colts OTOH play in a crap division and have an absurdly easy home schedule.

[Suaveness]

Re: Colts sign Luck

Plainly I am not wrong and I am not a troll. Fact is that Faulk in in the Hall and Marvin soon will be. Reggie Wayne numbers then were enough to already make Marvin a star. Wayne is over-the-hill and he would have been released if the Colts could have signed Garcon`. Wayne was not the best receiver last year, Garcon` was. I don't care about the numbers, Garcon` was hurt for a bit. Who got the big contract? Garcon` got it and he deserved it. Want to bet on Wayne and Garcon`number this year? ... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. CTRL+F5 reloads the whole page.

That's not what he said. Faulk and Marvin were not close to hall of famers when Manning arrived. Harrison was a nobody until Manning made him what he was. That team was not good, and I would argue that this team was much better off than the one in 1998. This team has a lot more experience and talent than that team.

RB: Faulk is definitely better, no question. But look at the WRs: Outside of Harrison (who was nothing before Manning), you had Pathon, EG Green, Torrence small. They sucked. Dilger and Pollard were the real options for Manning. Meanwhile we have Wayne (who is better now than Harrison in 98), Collie, Avery, a couple rookies, and Fleener/Allen. That's much, much better than 98.

The offensive line we have now is much more experienced than the one in 98. Sure, they are new to us, but that doesn't mean that they can't gel and be good as a unit.

Oh, and Garcon got paid because Washington is stupid and he's younger. No one will give Wayne a contract in his mid-30s. And no, Wayne was a better receiver. He doesn't have butterfingers.

[OlBlu]

Re: Colts sign Luck

That's not what he said. Faulk and Marvin were not close to hall of famers when Manning arrived. Harrison was a nobody until Manning made him what he was. That team was not good, and I would argue that this team was much better off than the one in 1998. This team has a lot more experience and talent than that team.

RB: Faulk is definitely better, no question. But look at the WRs: Outside of Harrison (who was nothing before Manning), you had Pathon, EG Green, Torrence small. They sucked. Dilger and Pollard were the real options for Manning. Meanwhile we have Wayne (who is better now than Harrison in 98), Collie, Avery, a couple rookies, and Fleener/Allen. That's much, much better than 98.

The offensive line we have now is much more experienced than the one in 98. Sure, they are new to us, but that doesn't mean that they can't gel and be good as a unit.

Oh, and Garcon got paid because Washington is stupid and he's younger. No one will give Wayne a contract in his mid-30s. And no, Wayne was a better receiver. He doesn't have butterfingers.

Here, you need to read about a great football player and a very good team. You won't see that from the Colts this year......http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201..._a14&eref=sihp

[Sollozzo]

Re: Colts sign Luck

Harrison was a nobody until Manning made him what he was.

I think it's a pretty big stretch to say that Harrison was a "nobody" before Manning. Harrison had only been in the league for two years when we drafted Manning, so he was still a pretty young player himself when Peyton arrived. In 1996 as a rookie, he had 8 TDs, 64 receptions, and 836 yards. 8 of Harbaugh's 13 TD's that year were to Marvin. That is a pretty damn good rookie campaign considering he had a QB who clearly wasn't an elite passer.

In 1997, he had 6 TDs, 73 receptions, and 866 yards with a decrepit Harbaugh and Paul Justin.

Marvin clearly showed in his first two seasons before Peyton arrived that he was a pretty talented receiver. He put up really good stats with QB's who were not elite passers. When Peyton got going, Marv's stats exploded. There's no way Peyton would have been so great early on in his career if he didn't have Harrison to rely on. In Peyton's later years here, he could make any scrub look like a decent receiver. But when he was a young guy, he needed a security blanket like Marv who he knew could always bail him out.

[Kid Minneapolis]

Re: Colts sign Luck

You should also argue, howver, that Harrison benefitted a tad from having someone named Peyton Manning throw to him for most of his career. Harrison was great, but he had someone on the other side of the ball that was juicing up his resume a bit. No coincidence that before Peyton, Harrison was fairly little-known, and then afterwards he skyrocketted. Not to take away from Marvin... he's my 2nd favorite Colt of all-time. But Manning proved he could make *any* receiver look really really good.. he elevated the production of *every* receiver he ever threw to.

Harrison hadn't proven much before Peyton's arrival, except he was a serviceable receiver. Harbaugh wasn't *that* bad.

[Sollozzo]

Re: Colts sign Luck

You should also argue, howver, that Harrison benefitted a tad from having someone named Peyton Manning throw to him for most of his career. Harrison was great, but he had someone on the other side of the ball that was juicing up his resume a bit. No coincidence that before Peyton, Harrison was fairly little-known, and then afterwards he skyrocketted. Not to take away from Marvin... he's my 2nd favorite Colt of all-time. But Manning proved he could make *any* receiver look really really good.. he elevated the production of *every* receiver he ever threw to.

Harrison hadn't proven much before Peyton's arrival, except he was a serviceable receiver. Harbaugh wasn't *that* bad.

Harbaugh was a gritty player, but by 1996 and 1997 he was clearly nearing the end of the line. He was not an elite passer then, not even close. Yet Harrison had very solid stats for the first two seasons of his career and made up a sizable % of Harbaugh's throwing stats. Harbaugh threw 23 COMBINED touchdowns in 1996 and 1997. Harrison had 14 TDs in those two years. He was a young stud.

I never said that Harrison didn't benefit greatly from Manning because clearly he did. He would not have such obscene career statistics if he didn't have such an elite QB throwing him the ball. All I'm saying is that having Harrison helped Manning immensely in the early seasons of his career. That's evident by the number of times Manning targeted Harrison in his first few seasons. From 1999-2002, Harrison had 115, 102, 109, and 143 receptions. After 2002, Harrison never again had a 100 reception season, even though he was still arguably the best receiver in the league. That's because Manning was turning into one of the greatest QB's ever and was much better at throwing the ball to different players.

The Harrison-Manning relationship was mutually beneficial. Harrison proved in 1996 and 1997 that he was an extremely talented young receiver who was capable of putting up very solid numbers with a QB who was not a premier passer. Having a player of his talent helped young Manning gain confidence. But of course, Harrison clearly doesn't retire with such gaudy numbers if he doesn't have a Peyton Manning throwing him the ball. No question about that.

[OlBlu]

Re: Colts sign Luck

Harbaugh was a gritty player, but by 1996 and 1997 he was clearly nearing the end of the line. He was not an elite passer then, not even close. Yet Harrison had very solid stats for the first two seasons of his career and made up a sizable % of Harbaugh's throwing stats. Harbaugh threw 23 COMBINED touchdowns in 1996 and 1997. Harrison had 14 TDs in those two years. He was a young stud.

I never said that Harrison didn't benefit greatly from Manning because clearly he did. He would not have such obscene career statistics if he didn't have such an elite QB throwing him the ball. All I'm saying is that having Harrison helped Manning immensely in the early seasons of his career. That's evident by the number of times Manning targeted Harrison in his first few seasons. From 1999-2002, Harrison had 115, 102, 109, and 143 receptions. After 2002, Harrison never again had a 100 reception season, even though he was still arguably the best receiver in the league. That's because Manning was turning into one of the greatest QB's ever and was much better at throwing the ball to different players.

The Harrison-Manning relationship was mutually beneficial. Harrison proved in 1996 and 1997 that he was an extremely talented young receiver who was capable of putting up very solid numbers with a QB who was not a premier passer. Having a player of his talent helped young Manning gain confidence. But of course, Harrison clearly doesn't retire with such gaudy numbers if he doesn't have a Peyton Manning throwing him the ball. No question about that.

Harbaugh in those days did not have the arm strength to throw a deep sideline pass. Harrison was very good. If he had started with Peyton, you would have seen two more 1000 yd. + seasons. Harrison was a star when Peyton arrived. I note not may people are talking about Faulk who was also a star then.....

[Sollozzo]

Re: Colts sign Luck

Harbaugh in those days did not have the arm strength to throw a deep sideline pass. Harrison was very good. If he had started with Peyton, you would have seen two more 1000 yd. + seasons. Harrison was a star when Peyton arrived. I note not may people are talking about Faulk who was also a star then.....

I think people are overlooking Faulk because him and Peyton played only one season together.