Jim Ringo!
2022 Colts Thread
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Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.
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"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."
-John WoodenComment
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I'm telling y'all, Irsay heard Saturday say he'd be a better coach and double-dog-dared him on the spot.
As bizarre as the NFL can be, I'd half expect to hear that story come out as Jeff is being inducted in Canton."Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel
"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "Comment
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While the Saturday hire is strange the Colts were not going anywhere this season so let's see what happens. I will say this. Saturday was my favorite player during my stent watching the team during all those training camp years. He was the one player who signed autographs every day and he would force the O-line to constantly sign too. The O-line had two carts they would hop on and Glenn, Diem and the rest would ***** and moan but Saturday would get on their *** as the leader you're going to do this. Leadership abililties, yes like a drill seargent. We'll see how that translates to guys who have treated with kid gloves.You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....Comment
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The whole thing is weird - timing, sequence of firings, etc. Inexperienced coach without a play caller on staff. Etc.
Only thing I'm pretty sure about is that Jim is really pissed off at how the season has gone. I think he thought this was a Super Bowl caliber team. I did too I guess.
Ballad is probably pissed for the same reason - he improved the defense, added some TE/WR that look promising, locked up the core of one of the best lines in football. Then the offense falls apart in spectacular fashion and the season blows up. I would have though that the worse case for the offensive line was "average". And now his job is on the line too.
Frustrating as a fan, but it's got to be even more frustrating from an ownership perspective.
You're caught up in the Internet / you think it's such a great asset / but you're wrong, wrong, wrong
All that fiber optic gear / still cannot take away the fear / like an island song
- Jimmy BuffettComment
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^^ And that was a complaint that I always had about Reich. The 'nice guy' stuff doesn't get results. He never seemed to hold anyone accountable. Granted - I don't know what happened behind the scenes, but the results make it fairly clear on how things were.
It was always - THAT'S OK .... we'll move on. Well - no. It's not always OK. Sometimes - someone needs their butt reamed out. I can see Jeff doing that.Comment
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^^ And that was a complaint that I always had about Reich. The 'nice guy' stuff doesn't get results. He never seemed to hold anyone accountable. Granted - I don't know what happened behind the scenes, but the results make it fairly clear on how things were.
It was always - THAT'S OK .... we'll move on. Well - no. It's not always OK. Sometimes - someone needs their butt reamed out. I can see Jeff doing that.
It was a frustrating year, but on Christmas night we were 9-6 and had been playing some really good football. We were 9-3 after the 0-3 start. Week in and week out we were competitive, and at times we looked pretty good. Certainly looked primed for a playoff spot.
Then we went home and had that poor effort against Vegas, followed by the embarrassing collapse in Jax. End of season, no playoffs.
Reich just never recovered in Indy after that. The poor efforts at the end of last year spilled right over into this season, and somehow the team looked even worse than the team that lost to the Raiders and Jaguars last year even though they had an off-season to address the issues.
Not sure what happened, but we quickly went from a very competitive team to a just straight up embarrassingly bad team.Last edited by Sollozzo; 11-08-2022, 01:58 PM.Comment
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I think Reich NEEDED a strong QB on the field. Someone that would/could check out of bad plays, someone who the players could respect. Someone to be an intermediary between Reich and the team. Luck easily fit that bill. I'm thinking Rivers did as well.
Meanwhile, Wentz not so much.
I would've THOUGHT Ryan did too, but maybe after last year, Reich's control had slipped too much. And maybe Ryan just isn't physically capable of making anything out of nothing. He's not going to roll out, nor escape the rush for a 10 yard gain running, etc... So maybe him being able to lead just wasn't there in a physical sense. Or maybe he threw in with Reich when the rest of the team had all but checked out on Reich by this season. But that doesn't necessarily make sense because it seems there were some 'issues' with the Ryan benching amongst the team. Of course it could've been 50/50 too. Those that were all in on Reich, and those that were done with him. It doesn't have to be 100% for the wheels to come off. Once everyone is not on the same page, nobody might as well be.Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.
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"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."
-John WoodenComment
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Jim Irsay on Saturday: "I'm glad he doesn't have experience in the NFL, I like that he doesn't get the fears of this league, because it's hard for the coaches, they're scared and they go to the statistics, it gets complicated, he doesn't got that."
I'm just going to go ahead and jump to conclusions and say Irsay became concerned that Frank's problem was he wasn't coaching or calling the game and situation on the field... He was looking at analytics and too invested in the numbers by themselves. Mix in calling games when you know your job and reputation are on the line, and I could definitely see some fear. Fear to be conservative when the analytics say to go for it... fear to just take the FG when the analytics say "go for that TD!". Fear to call a simple play when you think you can second-guess the opponent, even though you've not second-guessed them all game. Fear to not be aggressive when the analytics say to be more conservative.
The Frank Reich era opened with that silliness that brought the team a loss when they at least had a tie all but sewn up. It left Colts Nation confused, some happy he went for it because a win is all that mattered. Others angry that not going for it would all but at least guarantee a tie, and a tie is not a loss. And those weird, situations be daxned, analytical calls, or gambles, continued to follow and plague the team his entire tenure. They especially became bothersome when the team clearly wasn't good enough to be uber-aggressive and couldn't overcome mistakes and leaving points on the field.
It wouldn't surprise me if that kind of thinking didn't permeate his coaching to the point it ultimately cost him his job. Especially when trying to coach a team that wasn't good enough to overcome that. And with doubts from the staff to the players becoming more interwoven into the game and game prep.
IMO...Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.
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"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."
-John WoodenComment
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I think Reich NEEDED a strong QB on the field. Someone that would/could check out of bad plays, someone who the players could respect. Someone to be an intermediary between Reich and the team. Luck easily fit that bill. I'm thinking Rivers did as well.
Meanwhile, Wentz not so much.
I would've THOUGHT Ryan did too, but maybe after last year, Reich's control had slipped too much. And maybe Ryan just isn't physically capable of making anything out of nothing. He's not going to roll out, nor escape the rush for a 10 yard gain running, etc... So maybe him being able to lead just wasn't there in a physical sense. Or maybe he threw in with Reich when the rest of the team had all but checked out on Reich by this season. But that doesn't necessarily make sense because it seems there were some 'issues' with the Ryan benching amongst the team. Of course it could've been 50/50 too. Those that were all in on Reich, and those that were done with him. It doesn't have to be 100% for the wheels to come off. Once everyone is not on the same page, nobody might as well be.
Rivers definitely worked, which is why they thought they could just plug and chug a veteran QB into the team. Their line of thinking was that guys like Taylor and Leonard are on the roster to win right now. You can't just freeze players like that in the NFL where the average career lifespan even for good players is fairly short. So I get where their head was, but it obviously just didn't work.
Last year we had the line and an elite running game. Plus Wentz, despite his many faults, could make plays on his feet and the defenses at least had to respect his physical ability to throw the ball far. He had plenty of games where he was at least good enough to win. So that's why we were generally a competitive team for most of last season. We controlled our fate at the end of the year and should have been a comfortable playoff team, but of course we had the embarassing collapse. And that was really the end for Reich in Indy. Just never recovered from that pififul collapse against Vegas and Jax.
Then all the sudden this year, the line gets bad and there is no running game. Well that was just doomed to fail with a QB like Ryan. I still think Ryan could be fine if he had a perfect line and reliable options to throw to, but that's immaterial at the moment.
Then we put in a brand new QB like Ehlinger into a situation with no line. Well even Peyton Manning went 3-13 as a rookie. So that's not going to lead to wins either.....
Like Dungy said on Dan Patrick today, why not give Foles a look?Last edited by Sollozzo; 11-09-2022, 12:17 AM.Comment
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I think it will be tough for any coach to pull wins out of this team with a line this bad, unless Saturday as a former lineman can work some insane magic with this line. But that is a tall order for someone with no coaching experience at this level.
Rivers definitely worked, which is why they thought they could just plug and chug a veteran QB into the team. Their line of thinking was that guys like Taylor and Leonard are on the roster to win right now. You can't just freeze players like that in the NFL where the average career lifespan even for good players is fairly short. So I get where their head was, but it obviously just didn't work.
Last year we had the line and an elite running game. Plus Wentz, despite his many faults, could make plays on his feet and the defenses at least had to respect his physical ability to throw the ball far. Then all the sudden the line gets bad and there is no running game. Well that was just doomed to fail with a QB like Ryan.
Then we put in a brand new QB like Ehlinger into a situation with no line. Well even Peyton Manning went 3-13 as a rookie. So that's not going to lead to wins either.....
Like Dungy said on Dan Patrick today, why not give Foles a look?
I bet they'll have Foles play/start vs the Eagles and hand them their first loss. I don't know why but it seems like it could happen.Comment
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Is this TMZ thing supposed to be about the Colts or Vegas?Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.
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"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."
-John WoodenComment
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