Nirvana's place in the world of music....

[Trader Joe]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

Well, if 24 people on PD have spoken, I guess that settles just about everything...

Well if one guy on the New York Times says something and it is presented as fact instead of opinion, why is my use of that poll any less relevant? Especially since I'm guessing a solid number of people in that poll are part of the generation Nirvana supposedly represented.

[Since86]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

So suddenly "popular" can't be measured by album sales, because it doesn't take artistic ability into account.

This debate has entered the twilight zone.

[Trader Joe]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

Trader Joe, I think i can answer all you said with a couple sentences. I never said Nirvana was the highest selling band of all time, but for a period they had the most popular album. Your Garth Brooks comparison (and others) makes sense if you don't understand the difference between the popularity of Backstreet Boys selling a bunch of records compared to Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness.

You can disagree, but it is fact that Nirvana is considered one of the greatest bands of all time, like the Beatles and so on. You can argue what is meant by "considerd" or somethining I don't know, but that seems pointless. I don't like the Boss at all, but he is considerd an all time great without question. Admitting this simple truth eliminates the whole Twain or Brooks argument because criticlaly and artistically they are not respected as all time greats.

That's just your OPINION though. In terms of the whole population, the evidence, the facts, the stuff we can actually see and touch suggests that Garth Brooks was the more popular artist, logically we can conclude there are A LOT of people who probably do view him as an all time great.

All you have is opinions. I am presenting with you figures to support my argument, and I'm not asking you to present figures because I know they don't support Nirvana at all, but that's sort of my whole point isn't it? Where is the hard evidence that Nirvana was so popular, so important, so artistically revered?

I think country fans would tell you that Twain and Brooks are both all time greats. Specifically Brooks look at how many different male country clones he spawned. I mean seriously they are everywhere and they are all trying to be like Garth Brooks was in the 90s.

[billbradley]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

So suddenly "popular" can't be measured by album sales, because it doesn't take artistic ability into account.

This debate has entered the twilight zone.

You aren't aware that artisits, not just music, are remembered by how they are reviewed critically?

[Trader Joe]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

You aren't aware that artisits, not just music, are remembered by how they are reviewed critically?

You're saying critics didn't like Garth Brooks?

[Trader Joe]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

I mean the guy is the second best selling US solo artist of all time behind only Elvis...somebody must have liked him a lot (Talking about Brooks)

[Since86]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

You aren't aware that artisits, not just music, are remembered by how they are reviewed critically?

Not true at all. Which was my freaking Oasis point.

After their first album they were deemed this great band, by critics, and then they bombed. Why?

Because consumers didn't like their music all that much. At the end of the day popularity is determined by how many albums you sell, not on how many good reviews you've received.

Like I've said, this thread has entered the twilight zone. Suddenly, popularity is determined by critics....

[billbradley]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

Oasis? Possitive album reviews? No, No. We are talking about artists that are continuously rated as one of the greatest of all time. Yes, critics are apart of this, but also rock historians. How else would I know Little Richard was an all time great? Or how about The Ramones (I think one GOLD record!)? If you acknowledge The Ramones as an all time great, you are using the same criteria that I am using for Nirvana, writers, musicians and consistent agreement among rock historians.

[Trader Joe]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

I think the Ramones did a really good job selling t-shirts to hipsters.

[Since86]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

Nirvana hasn't been "continuously" rated anything. They were only around 4 ****ing years.

Yeah, let's compare a band that was 4-5 years old, with a band that toured non-stop for 22 years.

[billbradley]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

I think the Ramones did a really good job selling t-shirts to hipsters.

Ok, well then I undertsand your confusion.

Nirvana hasn't been "continuously" rated anything. They were only around 4 ****ing years.

Yeah, let's compare a band that was 4-5 years old, with a band that toured non-stop for 22 years.

What? So now you're saying that Nirvana isn't rated as one of the greatest artists of all time on a consistent basis by top musicians, writers, and rock historians?

[Since86]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

I suggest you reread this thread, because obviously you've missed the entire point, and it would be retarded to make this into a 30 page thread.

[billbradley]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

I understand how it started, but I was making the point that Nirvana is considered one of the greatest artists of all time. Not a one hit wonder, not a band that can be compared to Shania Twain, not a band that is a footnote in rock history, not any of these ridiculous things suggested. You may consider them any of these things, but history views this band differently.

[Trader Joe]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

Why does Shania Twain suck so much? Because you don't like her? I don't get this. Seems awfully hypocritical to put Nirvana on such a pedestal and dismiss completely huge country artists like Twain and Brooks.

[Since86]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

And my point is that you're picking and choosing which "historian" to listen too. It's a freaking opinion. It's not a history fact, like a specific time.

You keep saying that it's fact they're considered one of the best bands of all time. Yes, TO SOME PEOPLE. To other's they're overrated.

Who is correct? Both of them. But we are saying it's a matter of opinion, where you are saying it's a matter of fact.

I asked a direct question last night, that went unanswered.

Can we atleast agree that there is a difference between fact and opinion?