COVID-19

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Eleazar
    Member
    • Jun 2010
    • 13839

    #1411
    Every country other than Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, and Singapore under estimated this virus. These places only dealt with it well because they've experienced what a Chinese based coronavirus outbreak looks like first hand before. Everyone else was listening to the World Health Organization who turns out are just another arm of the CCP propaganda department. Add to that 3 decades of exporting the production of all of our medical equipment to other countries (specifically China) who then stopped all shipments of this medical equipment to other countries (even recalled a ship mid transit). There was nothing any administration in this situation could have done to be prepared. You could make a strong argument that Bill Clinton is more at fault for our lack of supplies than Donald Trump. During the time something could have been done Washington was more concerned with impeaching Trump than the coronavirus. There was no way Trump would have gotten the political or social backing to enact the Stafford Act at that time. Most of the news outlets, currently most critical of how the administration has handled the situation, were saying the seasonal flu was worse at the time.

    When a situation changes as rapidly as this one does, you cannot over commit resources to a single location. If New York City doesn't need 30,000 ventilators today then New York City doesn't need 30,000 ventilators. We could wake up tomorrow with Dallas needing 20,000 ventilators while New York still only needs 5,000. You distribute resources in a just-in-time fashion as that keeps you flexible and able to react as the situation changes.

    It is unlikely we even have 30,000 ventilators stockpiled, which leads me to my next point. How the **** is the US government supposed to poof 30,000 ventilators into existence? It takes time to ramp up production. It takes days or even weeks to transition a car factory into a ventilator factory. These things are not 3D printed. (although maybe they should be) You can't just poof them into existence. In a time like this we need to be thinking more critically instead of just reacting in the moment.


    Now, I think everyone needs to get out their Bibles and count every time it says "do not be afraid" or "do not worry". Or if you are an atheist, take out your copy of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and read the giant letters saying, "Don't Panic". Everyone just needs to calm down and think rationally.


    p.s. Trump is an awful man who is often wrong, but he is right about two things we need to end our dependence on China and fake news. Remember these people telling you Trump is doing a horrible job, are also the same people who were saying the flu was worse than this coronavirus just a month ago. They clearly cannot be trusted, and are a major reason people were not taking this thing seriously for a long time.
    Last edited by Eleazar; 03-27-2020, 01:12 AM.

    Comment

    • BlueNGold
      Banned
      • Aug 2005
      • 32249

      #1412
      Originally posted by Eleazar
      People get too caught up in what is said, and don't pay enough attention to actions taken.
      Exactly. There is a ridiculous assumption that he isn’t and hasn’t been doing everything humanly possible because there are these issues that are happening that nobody has ever encountered. If you don’t like Trump and something at all is going wrong, pile on!

      Comment

      • BlueNGold
        Banned
        • Aug 2005
        • 32249

        #1413
        Originally posted by Gamble1

        You didn't address the question. What's the estimated time of delivery. The test got delayed the ppe got delayed. Why assume the vents won't get delayed?

        I seriously hope you guys don't get sick. Right now I am supplying my wife with ppe here in Indiana. IU does not have proper ppe for everyone. I will start disinfecting ppe so she doesn't get sick.

        This administration under estimated this virus and now people will suffer. It is a difficult position to be in for sure but things will get much worse and we are all screwed by the lack of preparation and execution.
        The initial problems we faced on test kits are the CDC’s fault but the rest is the reason Trump ran in the first place and that was to cut reliance on other nations that do not have our best interests in mind.

        Where do you think we get our PPE? Well, 3M is one of them and most of their manufacturing is in Asia. If we had a nationalist in charge (Trump is one, btw) the last 30 years, we wouldn't have a problem with manufacturing what we need. It's not his fault this nation sold its soul for the dollar 50 years ago. I witnessed that in the 1970's as GM shut down my dad's plant in Anderson, Indiana. This problem is one that people like Trump have been warning about for DECADES.

        So to answer your question directly, ask 3M. If there are delays for anything it's because of companies that offshored their manufacturing and sold the goods overseas instead of to the US. And of course, Trump is trying to change that and he's the first president in my lifetime who has tried to do it.

        Beyond that, Trump isn't going to withhold things that are available. The issue is one of supply and demand. Read all about the fact that 3M cannot keep up, because it is all over the internet. Trump cannot order anything from a company that does not have it. Got it? So, rather than blame the guy that was in the process of fixing what has been going on in this country since about 1970, how about getting behind him?

        Also, take a gander at Eleazar’s post. This is a disaster regardless and it is about time that this nation come together. But the Trump haters will prevent that. I am not surprised though. They are not rational because they have Trump Derangement Syndrome, something worse than Covid-19 apparently.
        Last edited by BlueNGold; 03-27-2020, 08:23 AM.

        Comment

        • BlueNGold
          Banned
          • Aug 2005
          • 32249

          #1414
          Gretchen Whitmer, Dem Governor in Michigan, is threatening doctors and pharmacists. Apparently she doesn't want them to prescribe Hydroxychloroquine. So, purely for politics, she is inserting herself between the doctor and his or her patients. Thank goodness I live in Indiana where rational people live.

          Comment

          • Peck
            Administrator
            • Jan 2004
            • 20053

            #1415
            Just FYI guys FEMA has now activated the national deployment of EMS resources. In other words if you have every seen a 10 mile long caravan of Ambulances headed down south or south east for a Hurricane that is what this is. Right now Indiana EMS Units are being deployed to NYC & Chicago. The call for deployment say's a minimum of 30 days.

            I believe this is the first time in my time in EMS for this to be activated for something not a hurricane or a flood. Tornado's, even large one's, don't get this type of deployment. Also I'm sure you all saw that Seymour hospital has 60+ staff members in quarantine for 14 days. That is a disaster for that, or any for that matter, hospital system. You can't lose that many health care workers for that long. Not sure what is going to happen there yet.


            Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

            Comment

            • Guest

              #1416
              Wuhan Coronavirus: The Mainstream Media's Inconsistencies

              Last edited by Guest; 03-27-2020, 06:34 AM.

              Comment

              • vapacersfan
                Member
                • Apr 2006
                • 8617

                #1417
                Originally posted by BlueNGold
                So vapacerfan, did you tap into some sort of negative Trump RSS feed or something. Fake news has stepped it up.
                You claim to be unbiased, but if anything is anti POTUS you actually start yelling #fakenews.....

                Comment

                • vapacersfan
                  Member
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 8617

                  #1418
                  Originally posted by BlueNGold

                  So what do you think my position is because I don't think you know. I am not Mr. Mass...

                  All I am asking is for some objective reporting. Not 100% negative.

                  And you can bet I take this virus as serious as anyone.
                  I never assumed your position, but every time someone says ANYTHING negative about the POTUS you immediate look for a reason to discredit it. Sorry, the media (all media) may be biased but simply choosing you don’t like the media and then saying “you want biased media” doesn’t work. You cant say one side is 100% right and the other side is 100% wrong and then claim you just want folks to be objective

                  Comment

                  • vapacersfan
                    Member
                    • Apr 2006
                    • 8617

                    #1419
                    Originally posted by BlueNGold

                    It's rather interesting that liberal areas are where (by far) the biggest issues are in this country, yet liberals try to claim conservatives are not taking it seriously. Same with Europe where all those liberal socialists are running around. Apparently they don't take it all that serious.
                    Huh? I would argue Europe is ahead of the curb is taking this seriously and taking action......

                    Comment

                    • vapacersfan
                      Member
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 8617

                      #1420
                      Originally posted by BlueNGold

                      Just to put this into perspective, that 1.44% is based on the tiny fraction of people who have symptoms and therefore were tested. Only 1 in 3750 people in the US have been tested.

                      So that bad number of 1.44% is a very tiny sample of those people most likely to have the virus.

                      The number of flu deaths in the US is likely around 50,000 this flu season. We have 1200 Covid-19 deaths.

                      Not saying it's a hoax. Not discounting it. Just being real and putting it into perspective.

                      Finally, notice that a lot of well known people are known to have contracted the virus....and many were early reports. That makes me believe A LOT of people already had it.

                      If it's really true a significant percentage of the population has had it, even if half compared to people who've had the flu....hmmm. Just something to ponder.
                      Has anyone said if its possible to get this more than once? I keep hearing rumors but haven’t seen anything from the CDC, WHO, etc...

                      Comment

                      • vapacersfan
                        Member
                        • Apr 2006
                        • 8617

                        #1421
                        Originally posted by BlueNGold

                        There is reportedly longer, scarier hospital stays even if you don't die. Not sure if that's because we have a vaccine for the seasonal flu or just that our population has anti-bodies for it.

                        In any event, this isn't a black or white issue. There's nothing wrong with being optimistic of potential treatments. There is a problem if all you do is spew negativity without recognizing there are some things going on that look hopeful.

                        The key is that this isn't about Trump. If you want to make it about Trump don't forget he instituted a travel ban in late January and while he had a brief delay accepting it as a major issue it didn't take him long. And no he never said it was a hoax. See, smart people can see through this agenda and we will call it out every time.
                        Smart people can also recognize when its splitting hairs and when its not the first time a leader has reacted slowly (or not at all). A “brief” delay literally could have made a HUGE difference. But smart people can see that no problem.....

                        Comment

                        • vapacersfan
                          Member
                          • Apr 2006
                          • 8617

                          #1422
                          Originally posted by BlueNGold

                          I guess I don't mind people saying Trump is wrong. The issue is claiming he's lying. Can't we look at this objectively rather than demonizing the man when he is actually trying the help the nation?

                          Edit: BTW, that's a rather personal attack and you are not right that he is lying about it. Even if he was, you wouldn't know that.
                          You keep saying that, but it doesn’t line up with your posts.....

                          Comment

                          • Guest

                            #1423
                            In the past 24 hours . . .
                            • Spain has recorded 718 deaths.
                            • Italy has recorded 712 deaths.
                            • France has recorded 365 deaths.
                            These three countries, combined, have a little more than half the population of the U.S.

                            I have no idea how anyone could view that as being "ahead of the curve."

                            Comment

                            • vapacersfan
                              Member
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 8617

                              #1424
                              Originally posted by Eleazar
                              Every country other than Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, and Singapore under estimated this virus. These places only dealt with it well because they've experienced what a Chinese based coronavirus outbreak looks like first hand before. Everyone else was listening to the World Health Organization who turns out are just another arm of the CCP propaganda department. Add to that 3 decades of exporting the production of all of our medical equipment to other countries (specifically China) who then stopped all shipments of this medical equipment to other countries (even recalled a ship mid transit). There was nothing any administration in this situation could have done to be prepared. You could make a strong argument that Bill Clinton is more at fault for our lack of supplies than Donald Trump. During the time something could have been done Washington was more concerned with impeaching Trump than the coronavirus. There was no way Trump would have gotten the political or social backing to enact the Stafford Act at that time. Most of the news outlets, currently most critical of how the administration has handled the situation, were saying the seasonal flu was worse at the time.
                              I have no problem saying its a difficult position to be in. I have a HUGE problem saying no other administration would have handled this differently. I would have to go back and look at old news articles (which are all probably fake news) but didn’t POTUS cut funding to the CDC when he came on board? This thing came out of nowhere, that I can agree with. However when it looked like it was a real issue the administration still downplayed it....damn near until the point the NBA canceled games.

                              When a situation changes as rapidly as this one does, you cannot over commit resources to a single location. If New York City doesn't need 30,000 ventilators today then New York City doesn't need 30,000 ventilators. We could wake up tomorrow with Dallas needing 20,000 ventilators while New York still only needs 5,000. You distribute resources in a just-in-time fashion as that keeps you flexible and able to react as the situation changes.
                              This sounds great, until just in time shipment break down and the supply chain doesn’t work (this coming from someone who works in supply chain). This is why, IMO, it was a bad idea to pit the states against each other.

                              It is unlikely we even have 30,000 ventilators stockpiled, which leads me to my next point. How the **** is the US government supposed to poof 30,000 ventilators into existence? It takes time to ramp up production. It takes days or even weeks to transition a car factory into a ventilator factory. These things are not 3D printed. (although maybe they should be) You can't just poof them into existence. In a time like this we need to be thinking more critically instead of just reacting in the moment.
                              Part of critical thinking would have been taking this a little more seriously and not downplaying it as “just another flu”

                              Now, I think everyone needs to get out their Bibles and count every time it says "do not be afraid" or "do not worry". Or if you are an atheist, take out your copy of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and read the giant letters saying, "Don't Panic". Everyone just needs to calm down and think rationally.
                              Calming down is great. It’s ever better when leadership has a plan and folks take it seriously (which I hear more folks in the US are taking it seriously)

                              p.s. Trump is an awful man who is often wrong, but he is right about two things we need to end our dependence on China and fake news. Remember these people telling you Trump is doing a horrible job, are also the same people who were saying the flu was worse than this coronavirus just a month ago. They clearly cannot be trusted, and are a major reason people were not taking this thing seriously for a long time.
                              I disagree on everything you said. I don’t think POTUS is an awful man (he has a huge ego and is unwilling to admit when he is wrong). It’s easy to say we should end of dependence with China but you and I both know that isn’t happening anytime soon. Lastly, I often hear the phrase “fake news” thrown around. The irony is the left yells it out for “Fox News” and the right yells it out for, well, every other news source. Perhaps the truth it we need to stop listening to echo chambers and start challenging ourselves (I saw folks earlier about US approval of POTUS, I saw a chart in the WAPO the other day and I think both sides would be shocked to see approval ratings around the world)
                              Last edited by vapacersfan; 03-27-2020, 10:39 AM.

                              Comment

                              • vapacersfan
                                Member
                                • Apr 2006
                                • 8617

                                #1425
                                Cruise lines, early source of coronavirus infections, out of bailout package

                                https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...id=mailsignout

                                Comment

                                Working...