The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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  • Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post

    I just think it's the way they record the data and it's not being done daily. It should be, but they're busy partying in the bars and taking extended Euro vacations filling the beaches. ...while Germany is tucked away in their houses and all they have to do is collect and analyze their cases rising.

    Edit: OK,'s just the fact they are not doing a good job reporting numbers on a daily basis. I don't think it's anything fishy. It's just not a thing there as we know they don't wear masks and wipe down everything.
    Finally got my answer fo this. They report completely different from the rest of the EU. They report on the day the death occured which means all recent data is incomplete due to the lag in death certificate reporting. The other EU countries report on just the cumulative increase from the previous day regardless of when the death occured.

    Even with all that I question the data set being reported. Statistically it is improbable to get the same number of deaths being reported for 4 to 5 consecutive days and that has happened multiple times in a month which is well past the 10 day lag period for reporting.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 12-16-2020, 09:27 AM.


    • Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post

      Yet the state of Indiana is far worse and most states in America are worse than Sweden.

      also take a look at their demographics in Sweden. They are not as homogeneous as the other Nordic countries.

      edit: in addition to being more diverse Sweden simply has a larger population. It’s closer to being the size of a European country than any other Nordic country.
      I feel like Sweden is an enigma, They are a far more healthy society than America, and especially Indiana. America has legalized the slow poisoning of our population through processed foods.
      You can't get champagne from a garden hose.


      • This seems to be more evidence of the obvious... Trump wanted a herd immunity strategy and though it wasn't said, that's what was promoted and led to much of the mixed messaging, even though it was not a strategy that anyone with a calculator could get behind and was met with resistance.

        Maybe it does begin to explain Trump's rhetoric against masks in some "method to the madness" sort of way. If he wanted the economy to be as open as possible, and to slow the spread and rate of the illness, promoting mask wearing was a no-brainer... Yet he continually did the opposite. Anything to the contrary was an extreme outlier. So maybe he wanted people getting sick... "Liberate..." and all the anti-mask rhetoric makes some sense if you start to consider he wanted people getting sick.
        [I]"Infants, kids, teens, young people, young adults, middle aged with no conditions etc. have zero to little risk….so we use them to develop herd…we want them infected…" Alexander added.

        "t may be that it will be best if we open up and flood the zone and let the kids and young folk get infected" in order to get "natural immunity…natural exposure," Alexander wrote on July 24 to Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Stephen Hahn, Caputo and eight other senior officials. Caputo subsequently asked Alexander to research the idea, according to emails obtained by the House Oversight Committee's select subcommittee on coronavirus.

        Alexander also argued that colleges should stay open to allow Covid-19 infections to spread, lamenting in a July 27 email to Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Robert Redfield that “we essentially took off the battlefield the most potent weapon we had...younger healthy people, children, teens, young people who we needed to fastly [sic] infect themselves, spread it around, develop immunity, and help stop the spread.”

        “It was understood that he spoke for Michael Caputo, who spoke for the White House,” said Kyle McGowan, a Trump appointee who was CDC chief of staff before leaving this summer. “That’s how they wanted it to be perceived.”
        Senior Trump officials have repeatedly denied that herd immunity — a concept advocated by some conservatives as a tactic to control Covid-19 by deliberately exposing less vulnerable populations in hopes of re-opening the economy — was under consideration or shaped the White House's approach to the pandemic. “Herd immunity is not the strategy of the U.S. government with regard to coronavirus," HHS Secretary Alex Azar testified in a hearing before the House coronavirus subcommittee on Oct. 2.

        In his emails, Alexander also spent months attacking government scientists and pushing to shape official statements to be more favorable to President Donald Trump.

        For instance, Alexander acknowledges in a May 30 email that a draft statement from the CDC about how Covid-19 was disproportionately affecting minority populations was "very accurate," but he warned HHS and CDC communications officials that "in this election cycle that is the kind of statement coming from CDC that the media and Democrat [sic] antagonists will use against the president." The problems were "due to decades of democrat neglect," Alexander alleged.


        More at the link...

        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.


        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

        -John Wooden



          Alaska Health Worker Had a Serious Allergic Reaction After Pfizer’s Vaccine

          WASHINGTON — A health worker in Alaska had a serious allergic reaction after getting Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine on Tuesday and was hospitalized, according to three people familiar with official reports of the person’s health. The person was still in the hospital on Wednesday morning, under observation.

          Government officials were scrambling on Wednesday to learn more about the case. The worker had no history of drug allergies but it was unclear whether he or she suffered from other types of allergies, according to one person familiar with the case.

          With millions of Americans expected to be vaccinated by the end of the year, the incident is likely to prompt federal officials to be even more watchful for any sign of serious side effects. The Alaska recipient’s reaction was believed to be similar to the anaphylactic reactions two health workers in Britain experienced after receiving the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine last week. Both of them recovered.

          Pfizer’s trial in the United States involving more than 40,000 people did not find any serious adverse events caused by the vaccine, although many participants did experience aches, fevers and other side effects. Severe allergic reactions to vaccines are typically linked to the vaccine because of their timing.

          A Pfizer spokeswoman, Jerica Pitts, said that the company does not yet have all of the details of the case but is working with local health authorities. The vaccine comes with information warning that medical treatment should be available in case of a rare anaphylactic event, she said. “We will closely monitor all reports suggestive of serious allergic reactions following vaccination and update labeling language if needed,” Ms. Pitts said.

          After the workers in Britain fell ill, authorities there initially warned against giving the vaccines to anyone with a history of severe allergic reactions. They later clarified their concerns, changing the wording from “severe allergic reactions” to specify that the vaccine should not be given to anyone who has ever had an anaphylactic reaction to a food, medicine or vaccine. That type of reaction to a vaccine is “very rare,” they said.

          Pfizer officials have said the two British people who had the reaction had a history of severe allergies. One, a 49-year-old woman, had a history of egg allergies. The other, a 40-year-old woman, had a history of allergies to several different medications. Both carried EpiPen-like devices to inject themselves with epinephrine in case of such a reaction.

          Pfizer has said that its vaccine does not contain egg ingredients.

          The British update also said that a third patient had a “possible allergic reaction,” but did not describe it.

          In the United States, federal regulators issued a broad authorization for the vaccine on Friday to adults 16 years and older. Health care providers were warned not to give the vaccine to anyone with a “known history of a severe allergic reaction” to any component of the vaccine, which they said was a standard warning for vaccines.

          But because of the British cases, F.D.A. officials have said they would require Pfizer to increase its monitoring for anaphylaxis and submit data on it once the vaccine comes into use. Pfizer also said that the vaccine is recommended to be administered in settings that have access to equipment to manage anaphylaxis. Last weekend, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said that people with serious allergies can be safely vaccinated, with close monitoring for 30 minutes after receiving the shot.

          Anaphylaxis can be life-threatening, with impaired breathing and drops in blood pressure that usually occur within minutes or even seconds after exposure to a food or medicine, or even a substance like latex to which the person is allergic.


          • Fauci: 85 percent of the US needs to get the Covid-19 vaccine for “true herd immunity”

            As the Covid-19 vaccination campaign gets underway, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s leading infectious disease scientist, told Vox’s Sean Rameswaram on Tuesday that he is hoping to get as much as 85 percent of Americans vaccinated against the virus.

            “If you really want true herd immunity, where you get a blanket of protection over the country ... you want about 75 to 85 percent of the country to get vaccinated,” Fauci, the longtime head of the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said in a live-recorded interview with Rameswaram, the host of Today, Explained. “I would say even closer to 85 percent.”


            • Waitress Quits Her Job On The Spot After Anti-Maskers Claim “Religious Exemption” At Denny’s

              A video of a Denny’s hostess announcing that she’s quitting after a group of anti-maskers came in claiming religious exemptions to mask mandates (of which there is no such thing) went viral as every working person lived vicariously through her. The video was caught on one of the anti-masker’s cell phones and made its way onto Reddit, where people thoroughly enjoyed the woman’s demonstration of being absolutely fed up with this nonsense.

              You can see the hostess making up her mind as she begins to walk away from the unwelcome customers.

              "You know what I quit, I f---ing quit," she says after the man filming claims the exemption. "What is wrong with you people?"

              She throws down the Denny's menus and summons her manager before nearly storming out the door, but the manager seems to convince her not to outright leave.

              "Roger, I'm not working for this s--t anymore," she says to him. "These guys won't put their masks on, I'm sick of feeling like this."

              The man behind the camera tries to cite the Civil Rights Act of 1964, claiming that it "says we can claim a religious exemption for not wearing a mask." This is, of course, not true, as mask mandates were not a thing prior to the current pandemic and after the pandemic of 1918 disappeared. The law also contains a specific provision saying that it "does not guarantee your entry into any particular business establishment."

              This is why establishments can have a "no shirt, no shoes, no service" policy regardless of your religion's stance on wearing shirts and shoes.

              While trying to avoid losing a staff member in the middle of a shift, Roger again explains to the anti-maskers that the state mandate can't be overridden by an imaginary exemption.

              "I'm sorry you can't come in here without a mask, the governor said 'no mask, no service,'" he tells them.

              The men again cite the Civil Rights Act incorrectly and claim that "we're not sick," again exposing the fact that anti-maskers are apparently incapable of understanding the concept of "asymptomatic." After being refused once more, they say that Denny's has lost their business.


              • Businesses trying to stay open. People trying to have jobs. All in a pandemic. And it's all put in jeopardy by ignorant, selfish azzholes like that.
                Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.


                "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                -John Wooden


                • News on Keyontae Johnson 'really, really positive' last 48 hours

                  GAINESVILLE, Fla. --
                  Florida athletics director Scott Stricklin joined the Sportscene with Steve Russell program on local radio in town on Wednesday and provided the latest update on hospitalized UF wing Keyontae Johnson, who collapsed on the court in Saturday's basketball game against Florida State.

                  Johnson has since been airlifted from Tallahassee Memorial Hospital to UF Health, where he is under care of a team of medical experts.

                  His progress has been very positive in the last few days. On Tuesday, his parents released a statement that Johnson was breathing on his own and in stable condition, enough so that he was able to speak to family and doctors and even share a FaceTime call with teammates.

                  The news since continues to trend in a positive direction.

                  "First off, let me say the information we're getting about Keyontae has been really, really positive in the last 48 hours," Stricklin said. "Everybody saw what his parents put out yesterday. I actually had a chance (to visit him). I was in Dallas at CFP meetings and got back late yesterday afternoon, was able to go straight to the hospital. Had a chance to see him. He was actually awake. He was actually sitting up in a chair. You could tell he's still been sedated, so he was still a little groggy, but he thanked me for coming by. It was good to see him and sitting up, he had family in there, his parents and others."

                  Since then Stricklin has received even more news on Johnson.

                  "I'm told today that he's even progressed a lot since then, that he's having good conversations with his doctors, with his coaches," the Florida athletics director said. "He's smiling and laughing. Still undergoing more tests. I think the tests that have gotten back so far have been positive from a medical standpoint. His prognosis seems to be trending in the right direction, but we still have a lot of questions. The medical folks have a lot of questions they want to make sure they get answered."

                  It's still unclear what exactly caused Johnson's collapse, which came just moments after he completed an alley-oop dunk early in the game and Florida State called timeout.

                  But the incident required him to be taken off the court on a stretcher and taken to Tallahassee Memorial, where he was soon listed in critical but stable condition.

                  His fall had athletes and fans across the country united in prayer for his recovery.

                  "The one thing I told Key when I saw him yesterday is he has no idea the number of people who have been lifting him up in prayer and sending along good thoughts," Stricklin said. "He needed to know how much he was loved, not just by Gators, I mean people all over the sporting community in the state of Florida and beyond have really lifted him up."

                  The Florida athletics director also took a minute on Sportscene with Steve Russell to thank everyone at Florida State.

                  "I also want to take this time -- and we're going to do it in a more formal way -- but, we love to have the rivalry we have with FSU, but the way their folks responded and stepped up was really huge Saturday," Stricklin said. "Everything from their medical people on site jumping in, their president John Thrasher actually went to the hospital himself to see the family and he called (UF president Kent Fuchs) to update him on what he was hearing.

                  "Just the whole FSU community was, they were really special during this time and we have great appreciation for them doing this and showing that, at the end of the day, this is just a game. There are bigger things in sports."

                  Stricklin concluded by noting that no decision has been made yet on whether to play Saturday's scheduled game against Florida Atlantic. Florida scrapped a game against North Florida tonight in the wake of Johnson's injury.

                  The athletics director said that players will have significant input on the decision whether to play Saturday, and he said a decision will most likely have to be reached by Thursday at the latest.

                  Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.


                  "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                  -John Wooden


                  • Originally posted by Bball View Post
                    Businesses trying to stay open. People trying to have jobs. All in a pandemic. And it's all put in jeopardy by ignorant, selfish azzholes like that.
                    There are all kinds out there. Not directed at you, but don't demonize religious people just because there are some claiming that kind of thing. I know V does that. I don't think anyone else here does.


                    • Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post

                      There are all kinds out there. Not directed at you, but don't demonize religious people just because there are some claiming that kind of thing. I know V does that. I don't think anyone else here does.
                      I don't think there's any chance that religion had anything to do with their claims. I'd be more likely to believe they were just stupid enough to think if they said that, they'd get a pass. Maybe even used that excuse before and got away with it. And if they did it probably had more to with a business (or an employee) not wanting to argue with customers than it did with the excuse actually being taken seriously.

                      But it's pretty simple... If your religion says you cannot wear a mask, then you're going to have to go some place besides Denny's in that town....
                      Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.


                      "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                      -John Wooden


                      • The US set its daily Covid-19 death toll record yesterday with over 3600 deaths.
                        All of a sudden, seeing a day with 4000 deaths no longer looks unimaginable.

                        Meanwhile, Congress SEEMS to be as close as they've been in some time on readying another Covid-19 relief bill that they will pass.
                        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.


                        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                        -John Wooden


                        • Germany and Sweden's deaths are going up...much faster now than UK and France. Their rolling averages just passed them.

                          Unlike masks being pushed by some, including here, the lockdowns seem to actually work. I expect if Sweden doesn't lockdown too, Germany will start doing much better and stop tracking them in death per capita as they have now for months.

                          Point is, masks are of questionable effectiveness. Now I'm not anti-mask...nor am I saying I don't wear a mask. I do. But I have yet to see convincing evidence it makes much of a difference and I disagree with the "so called experts" who keep making claims they cannot back up.


                          • For those interested for all IU campuses the mitigation testing has a positivity rate of 1.8%. So these are the asymptomatic and presymptomatic cases. The symptomatic cases have a positivity rate of 27.4%. In all there have been 4500 cases from august 1st till now. Again this is for all IU campuses which include satellite campuses. IU had 90,000 students enrolled for the fall.


                            • Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                              Germany and Sweden's deaths are going up...much faster now than UK and France. Their rolling averages just passed them.

                              Unlike masks being pushed by some, including here, the lockdowns seem to actually work. I expect if Sweden doesn't lockdown too, Germany will start doing much better and stop tracking them in death per capita as they have now for months.

                              Point is, masks are of questionable effectiveness. Now I'm not anti-mask...nor am I saying I don't wear a mask. I do. But I have yet to see convincing evidence it makes much of a difference and I disagree with the "so called experts" who keep making claims they cannot back up.
                              The problem is that in the real world you can not unlink all of the covid 19 mitigation from one particular mitigation policy. Its a melting pot which makes the study designs all that much harder for researchers. The best evidence will come from schools and in particular middle schools children on up to college. That is a very controlled study design for many areas in country.

                              For direct evidence you have seen me post a decrease in viral particles with different mask materials. For real world evidence you have the flu virus being held in check this year. The flu virus is different in it transmission but her in Indiana IU pathology screens have uncovered one case this fall. That is down from last year.

                              Here is another study on mask.



                              • Weird he didn't pray on it instead of getting lucifer's mark on him

                                Also weird he is getting a vaccine for a hoax

                                @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!