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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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  • Had you bothered to read my comments to the news article I posted that has triggered you, you'd see all you really needed to see to answer that silly question you highlighted. I'll copy them here. Read them and either answer them or just move on. Please.

    --------
    It looks like a key takeaway isn't just that Pfizer currently is light on vaccine to supply and would need to make more, and that the US failed to order more when offered the chance, but that the 'more' they would make is contractually obligated to other countries now.

    Takeaway number 2 is the US seemed to be comfortable that with the other candidates, they didn't need to order more from Pfizer. But that begs the question- If they were fine with what Pfizer could provide and they had other vaccines coming online with Pfizer to fill the gap, then why this new Executive Order?
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bball View Post
      Had you bothered to read my comments to the news article I posted that has triggered you, you'd see all you really needed to see to answer that silly question you highlighted. I'll copy them here. Read them and either answer them or just move on. Please.

      --------
      It looks like a key takeaway isn't just that Pfizer currently is light on vaccine to supply and would need to make more, and that the US failed to order more when offered the chance, but that the 'more' they would make is contractually obligated to other countries now.

      Takeaway number 2 is the US seemed to be comfortable that with the other candidates, they didn't need to order more from Pfizer. But that begs the question- If they were fine with what Pfizer could provide and they had other vaccines coming online with Pfizer to fill the gap, then why this new Executive Order?
      Ok, so don’t answer my question. I will directly answer yours.

      As Gamble1 said, the US has ample supply, several times than is needed. Trump just signed the EO because he’s an America first kind of guy. Certainly he doesn’t need more. I think the propaganda you suck in is spinning what it can but there ain’t nothing there. There’s no concern about supply now, only distribution and frankly the more companies distributing the better.

      So you have nothing.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Gamble1 View Post
        Keep in mind guys that the US has 5 stage 3 clinical trials going on. They have commitments for vaccines for every American 3 times over if I remember correctly.
        So 1 Billion doses and probably 250M willing to take it. 4 times more than needed.

        Comment


        • This Pfizer story about passing up more doses is a big nothing Burger. We got Moderna in the pipeline not even a month behind the Pfizer version and it doesn’t require the deep freeze storage..

          let all the healthcare and first responders and nursing home workers get the Vaccine. You and I won’t get that one anyway. The real question is how to get on the list for the Moderna version. It’s the better vaccine of the 2.
          You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
            This Pfizer story about passing up more doses is a big nothing Burger. We got Moderna in the pipeline not even a month behind the Pfizer version and it doesn’t require the deep freeze storage..

            let all the healthcare and first responders and nursing home workers get the Vaccine. You and I won’t get that one anyway. The real question is how to get on the list for the Moderna version. It’s the better vaccine of the 2.
            Right. I am glad to see another not taking MSM propaganda hook, line and sinker.

            One other thing. In addition to people who will refuse the vaccine there will be people who will want to wait months to take it. They will want to see if there are complications. It is not known how much vaccine we will even use and how long it will be distributed. The delay in distribution may drag this out into spring or summer.
            Last edited by BlueNGold; 12-08-2020, 06:47 AM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post

              So 1 Billion doses and probably 250M willing to take it. 4 times more than needed.
              So to be clear here we have other options in the making but none of those options besides moderna are close to 90% effective. The data in then summer would of been leaning towards buying more of mRNA vaccine. The most expensive vaccine is Moderna but they are based in the USA. BioNtech is based in Germany and owns the patent rights for their mRNA tech but they needed Pfizer to help with manufacturing and the set up for the clinical trials.

              The appearance to me at least is that we went with a product in the US over a German one and keep in mind we tried to buy a vaccine maker in Germany in spring which pissed off the Germans. That company is curvac and is up for a authorization in January.

              As for the supply chain issue that is not surprising. A lot of the components are made in India and the entire world is in need of them.
              Last edited by Gamble1; 12-08-2020, 07:24 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
                This Pfizer story about passing up more doses is a big nothing Burger. We got Moderna in the pipeline not even a month behind the Pfizer version and it doesn’t require the deep freeze storage..

                let all the healthcare and first responders and nursing home workers get the Vaccine. You and I won’t get that one anyway. The real question is how to get on the list for the Moderna version. It’s the better vaccine of the 2.
                So the Moderna vaccine will follow the same path as the Pfizer one. The general public is not going to get either one until probably summer. You are much more likely to get a curevac, johnson and johnson or a AstraZenca vaccine than a moderna vaccine.

                As for which ones better that is really splitting hairs. Any vaccine that is 90 percent effective is considered really good. It basically meets the threshold to vaccinate babies or to do trials in kids. These mRNA vaccines are worth the money. They are 10 times the cost but they will save the economy and more importantly lives.

                Last edited by Gamble1; 12-08-2020, 08:33 AM.

                Comment


                • Here is a nice article on what each country has purchased.

                  https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...ines-in-charts

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gamble1 View Post

                    So the Moderna vaccine will follow the same path as the Pfizer one. The general public is not going to get either one until probably summer. You are much more likely to get a curevac, johnson and johnson or a AstraZenca vaccine than a moderna vaccine.

                    As for which ones better that is really splitting hairs. Any vaccine that is 90 percent effective is considered really good. It basically meets the threshold to vaccinate babies or to do trials in kids. These mRNA vaccines are worth the money. They are 10 times the cost but they will save the economy and more importantly lives.
                    Well I'd deem it the superior vaccine because its MRNA based and it only requires standard -4?F cold freeze storage. Based on our countries infrastructure it can be more widely distributed in a faster time frame than the Pfizer version which needs -94? F storage.
                    Curevac is also MRNA based and is even more stable than the other 2 from what i have read, but i've not seen anything on its effectiveness or safety.

                    I am actually very wary of the Johnson and Johnson, Astra vaccines. I fear these will be behave more like your standard flu vaccine and offer not much effective protection or not even get you past 6 months of protection. From what I have reading the difference between mRNA vaccines and traditional dead virus Vaccines is night and day in terms of efficacy and length of immunity expected.
                    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                    Comment


                    • Worst hypocrites on the planet. These people laugh at the idea of living by the restrictions that they impose on everyone else. Never in a million years would they live their lives like they demand of others.


                      San Francisco Mayor London Breed says it is 'fair' to criticize her after she was spotted dining out last month.

                      According to the San Francisco Chronicle, Breed celebrated socialite Gorretti Lo Lui's 60th birthday on November 7 at the three-star Michelin restaurant the French Laundry in Yountville.

                      It was just one day after Gov. Gavin Newsom's infamous dinner party at the same restaurant.




                      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pologizes.html



                      The mayor of Austin, Texas, urged his constituents to "stay home" on a video call from a timeshare in Cabo San Lucas last month where he traveled on a private jet with eight family members and guests, according to the Austin Statesman and KVUE.

                      "Stay home if you can ... this is not the time to relax," said Steve Adler in the video, which was shared Facebook on November 9.



                      https://www.businessinsider.com/aust...-video-2020-12




                      A Los Angeles County supervisor dined outdoors last Tuesday just hours after voting to ban the practice over COVID-19 concerns, a new report said.

                      Sheila Kuehl, one of five elected supervisors who govern the county, was seen eating outside Il Forno Trattoria, an Italian restaurant in Santa Monica, Fox 11 reported.



                      https://nypost.com/2020/12/01/la-pol...-the-practice/




                      San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo issued an apology on Tuesday regarding a recent family gathering he attended, which he now admits violated California health protocols. Details of the family gathering were first reported on Monday by the NBC Bay Area Investigative Unit.


                      https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...ering/2411840/






                      Add these hypocrites to Newsom, Pelosi, Lightfoot, Frankenfeinstein, Biden (whispered to Anderson Cooper without a mask when he thought the cameras were off), the Denver mayor, etc etc etc. There is a laundry list of Democrats - both prominant and obscure - who have been caught being total hypocrites about their own rules. Seems to be a common theme with these Democrats in power - they would never in a million years live their lives like they demand of everyone else.

                      At this point, it's really fair to assume that everyone in power are hypocrites across the board -whether they are famous like Newsom or some obscure local official. Too many have been caught red handed being total hypocrites.

                      To their credit, Breed, Newsom, and Liccardo apologized and said they should do better. So credit to them for that. Pelosi OTOH ranted like a deranged lunatic about how she had been set up (which even if she was set up, that has nothing to do with her personal decision to not wear a mask which was the main reason she was called out). Pelosi is just incabpable of displaying the slightest bit of decency or humanity. She could have simply said she needed to set a better example and left it at that, but she lacks the class to show even a tiny amount of humility.

                      Comment


                      • 330 million people and fake news cherry picks. No surprise here that lemings like V sucks this in like a hog laps up slop.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by graphic-er View Post

                          Well I'd deem it the superior vaccine because its MRNA based and it only requires standard -4?F cold freeze storage. Based on our countries infrastructure it can be more widely distributed in a faster time frame than the Pfizer version which needs -94? F storage.
                          Curevac is also MRNA based and is even more stable than the other 2 from what i have read, but i've not seen anything on its effectiveness or safety.

                          I am actually very wary of the Johnson and Johnson, Astra vaccines. I fear these will be behave more like your standard flu vaccine and offer not much effective protection or not even get you past 6 months of protection. From what I have reading the difference between mRNA vaccines and traditional dead virus Vaccines is night and day in terms of efficacy and length of immunity expected.
                          Personally I think the cold chain is a bit overblown. You know how many -80 deg C freezers are around at my job. Every lab has one and their are emergency backups kept empty just in case on every floor. You know how much dry ice is produced and shipped in research and in sanitation. It is hard for me to imagine they couldn't keep these vaccines cold enough and I am not even bringing up liquid nitrogen dewars which are a dime a dozen. We have one just empty and I can go to surplus and grab many more if need be. These dewars are just like your yeti cooler but metal and shaped differently. You fill them up once a week.

                          Cold storage on a massive scale is nothing new in research. I am not sure why they are freaking out about it here in the US. There are 3 modes to store this vaccine and we have a ton of all three.

                          Until the data gets published we won't know why certain ones were more effective than others or if they are more effective based on age or health of the person vaccinated by but it is sort of wishful thinking to believe that you will have an option of which one you get.
                          Last edited by Gamble1; 12-08-2020, 04:40 PM.

                          Comment


                          • I was asked yesterday (and lots of my peers were via anonymous feedback) if we would take the vaccine if offered in 2021.

                            I haven’t talked to my military friends in Iraq and Afghanistan (mostly Marine Security Guards and Army) but I believe most of them have been told they were be offered as soon as its available. Not sure if it will be mandatory or optional

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