Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

[Sollozzo]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

Leonard is nice, but he's in a hechuva system... Hill is in a pretty bad spot in terms of fitting his strengths.

George Hill himself looked like a stud in San Antonio.

Hill's Indy numbers are virtually identical to what he put up in SA.

Hill would never be any better than the fourth best player on a good team. That's his ceiling. Leonard OTOH is showing that he can actually be the best player on a championship team at just 22 years of age. Sure the system is a major factor, but I don't see Boris Diaw or Patti Mills on the verge of a Finals MVP. Leonard is a hell of a player and his success goes way beyond the system. Also, our system has been pretty good for wings in recent years. Granger, PG, and Lance have all had good seasons under Vogel. There is no reason to think that Leonard couldn't have been a stud here either.

That being said, GM's don't have the benefit of three year hindsight when they make moves. At the time it was a pretty good trade for us. After the Chicago series, we needed veteran playmakers. Our biggest weakness in that series was that we were a young team who couldn't get baskets in crucial crunch time situations. Thus, Bird went out and got Hill and West. At the time, we didn't need yet another rookie. But it's hard to deny at this point that having Leonard right now would be way better than having Hill right now. In hindsight, the best thing would have been to trade Granger for a point guard while he still had value. Oh well, GM's don't have the benefit of the hindsight when they make moves. Overall, Bird has done a hell of a job.

[Slick Pinkham]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

would we better with Grep Popovich?

that's the question

the easy question

[Kid Minneapolis]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

Hill's Indy numbers are virtually identical to what he put up in SA.

Hill would never be any better than the fourth best player on a good team. That's his ceiling. Leonard OTOH is showing that he can actually be the best player on a championship team at just 22 years of age. Sure the system is a major factor, but I don't see Boris Diaw or Patti Mills on the verge of a Finals MVP. Leonard is a hell of a player and his success goes way beyond the system. Also, our system has been pretty good for wings in recent years. Granger, PG, and Lance have all had good seasons under Vogel. There is no reason to think that Leonard couldn't have been a stud here either.

That being said, GM's don't have the benefit of three year hindsight when they make moves. At the time it was a pretty good trade for us. After the Chicago series, we needed veteran playmakers. Our biggest weakness in that series was that we were a young team who couldn't get baskets in crucial crunch time situations. Thus, Bird went out and got Hill and West. At the time, we didn't need yet another rookie. But it's hard to deny at this point that having Leonard right now would be way better than having Hill right now. In hindsight, the best thing would have been to trade Granger for a point guard while he still had value. Oh well, GM's don't have the benefit of the hindsight when they make moves. Overall, Bird has done a hell of a job.

Hill had some massive playoff games in S.A. He routinely played a similar role in that team.

[Sollozzo]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

Hill had some massive playoff games in S.A. He routinely played a similar role in that team.

He's had some monster playoff games for the Pacers too (particularly 2013). Regardless, his San Antonio regular season and playoff averages are virtually identical to what he has done in Indy.

[Bball]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

Well.. this thread gets new life....

[Romsey31]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

Wow we traded away the nba finals mvp.. A 22 year old that beat the team we were trying to for the past 3 years. I feel sick

[Nuntius]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

would we better with Grep Popovich?

that's the question

the easy question

Every team would be better with Pop so yeah

[neosmndrew]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

I don't understand why this is even a question. If you transplanted G. Hill now with K. Leonard now, than of course yes. But having 3 years under G. Popovich would make any guy look amazing because Pop is that good. He made Boris ****ing Diaw look like a top 10 bench player. That alone should make the case that Leonard would not be any good had he started his career on any team.

[Nuntius]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

He made Boris ****ing Diaw look like a top 10 bench player.

He really did. I really think that France owes a big part of its golden medal in the '13 EuroBasket to Popovich. Diaw was largely mediocre in the '11 EuroBasket but he performed a lot better in '13 and helped his team win the gold. Tony Parker was excellent as well. The fact that both of them played in the same team in the NBA under Pop helped their team immensely.

[Justin Tyme]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

I don't understand why this is even a question. If you transplanted G. Hill now with K. Leonard now, than of course yes. But having 3 years under G. Popovich would make any guy look amazing because Pop is that good. He made Boris ****ing Diaw look like a top 10 bench player. That alone should make the case that Leonard would not be any good had he started his career on any team.

Your attitude about Diaw is exactly the same tripe that was being spread a year and a half ago on this forum when vnzla and others wanted to get him. It was stated Diaw was fat, out of shape, lazy, couldn't play, washed up, etc. He was playing in Charlotte on a LOOOSING team who couldn't win. He was use to winning not losing. Constant losing changes players. All he needed was a change of scenery to a team that could win games.

[Nuntius]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

Your attitude about Diaw is exactly the same tripe that was being spread a year and a half ago on this forum when vnzla and others wanted to get him. It was stated Diaw was fat, out of shape, lazy, couldn't play, washed up, etc. He was playing in Charlotte on a LOOOSING team who couldn't win. He was use to winning not losing. Constant losing changes players. All he needed was a change of scenery to a team that could win games.

Except that Diaw was also being mediocre when playing for France (which is a winning team). I was one of the people that didn't want Diaw but he certainly proved me wrong. Pop managed to turn his game around. He was much improved in the '13 EuroBasket with France and helped them win the gold. All of this was thanks to Pop.

I don't know if a lesser coach could do that. Diaw's talent was never doubted (not by me, at least). It was his desire that I disputed and Pop managed to turn it around.

PS: Still, Vnzla and all the others that wanted him were proven right in this case.

[Bball]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

Except that Diaw was also being mediocre when playing for France (which is a winning team). I was one of the people that didn't want Diaw but he certainly proved me wrong. Pop managed to turn his game around. He was much improved in the '13 EuroBasket with France and helped them win the gold. All of this was thanks to Pop.

I don't know if a lesser coach could do that. Diaw's talent was never doubted (not by me, at least). It was his desire that I disputed and Pop managed to turn it around.

PS: Still, Vnzla and all the others that wanted him were proven right in this case.

So is Pop the only coach in the world capable of making his players better and finding a system that lets his players succeed? Is there no inbetween? If the coach isn't good enough to do that, is he good enough to be your coach?

[immortality]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

Wow we traded away the nba finals mvp.. A 22 year old that beat the team we were trying to for the past 3 years. I feel sick

Except the fact that Kwahi has 3 hall of famers behind his back for his first four years and a legendary coach. Kwahi would have never been that here, he would have been stuck behind DG for the first year and then stuck behind PG and Lance, unless you want a starting backing court whose only ball handler was George Hill.

[Dr. Awesome]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

Pop is the greatest coach of all time and its not even close. I hate that we traded Kwahi, but lets not act like he would be the same player today that he is in San Antonio.

It was a bad trade either way, just not franchise changing bad.

[BillS]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

Clearly in the world of "what have you done for me lately" hindsight, the trade seems like it is no-brainer bad.

But I really don't understand how history has gotten rewritten that Hill failed to do exactly what we needed him to do in those first couple of years. Remember he was a sixth man in SA with occasional starts - that's what we expected him to do here. While he got to start due to injury, it became clear even after DC came back that Hill's defense was miles better. At that time, Hill was performing ABOVE what we had gotten him to do.

We simply did not have the luxury to develop Kawhi. If we had tried, there would be people today screaming about how terrible it is that Lance was stuck on the bench and why could we not find minutes for this amazing player we probably ended up trading for someone else.

As long as fans live in hindsight, forgetting anything between then and now, there will be something to be upset about.