Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

[Phree Refill]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

This thread compels me to provide everyone with a good chuckle from one of my former gems of a thread...

"Is Paul George what Jonathan Bender could have been?"

[King Tuts Tomb]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

I remember reading that if the Pacers didn't trade for Hill they were planning on drafting Leonard for themselves anyway. It's impossible to predict what would have happened in an alternate universe scenario, but there are days I'm glad we made the trade and days I wish we hadn't.

[Really?]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

I was so happy when Leonard fell to us, I really wanted us to draft him, felt like we got away with a steal, I thought he was exactly what we needed, then we traded the pick, heart was broken, and we got Hill, I was not all the way happy with the trade, but was like hey atleast we get a 2nd rounder out of it, then I found out that we gave up our second rounder as well, and then I was sad again...

With all that said I think we would be in a similar situation honestly, but probably a little more consistent, PG's would have came along we would have grabbed one from free agency if we needed. I would not have minded that 2/3 combo at all, possibly the strongest 2/3 defensive combo in the league, on competition would be Wade and James in my opinion.

But oh well, it is what it is, who really knows how he would have developed with the Pacers, before the draft I viewed him as an extremely hard worker and that is one of the big reasons I think he is where he is now, I felt him and PG would have pushed each other to greatness.

[PR07]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

I think the Pacers would've drafted Leonard, as I remember Bird saying he was the best player on their board. Also, just because they already had talented wings, it hadn't stopped them in the past from adding more (see the drafting of Danny Granger and Paul George).

It would've made us freakishly athletic on the wings, but it would've stunted Lance's development, as I can't see him being thrusted into such a significant role early on with Leonard eating into his PT. If Collison was our PG, we'd have the same issues we have now as far as the lack of passing and playmaking of our PG. My guess is someone else would be our starter. Who that would've been? Impossible to know. Maybe a buy-low candidate in previous times like Jose Calderon or Kyle Lowry.

[faank]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

I remember reading that if the Pacers didn't trade for Hill they were planning on drafting Leonard for themselves anyway. It's impossible to predict what would have happened in an alternate universe scenario, but there are days I'm glad we made the trade and days I wish we hadn't.

Indeed, I am certain we would have picked Leonard ourselves. I remember Bird saying, he knew what we had in Leonard ("a heck of a player") and I am pretty sure he viewed him the BPA at that point. I know I did, I pretty much started jumping up and down when the team before us took one of the Morris twins if I recall correctly, I knew our pick had to be Leonard. It was a bit of a shock to hear about the trade like 3 minutes after but I did like Hill too so I wasn't very sad. Leonard is probably my favorite non-Pacer in the league, though... Anyway, Bird called the Spurs immediately, as he knew he had enough now to take Hill. Apparently, he'd been after Hill for so long and considering we already had George and that - I think - he saw Hill as the missing piece in his puzzle of the starting unit, the trade made sense for both sides.

Here's an easier question to answer. According to Bird, it came down to two guys, Paul George and Ed Davis as for our 10th pick in 2010. Would we be better off with Davis?

[eldubious]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

Eh, I'm more bothered by Bird passing on Rondo in the 2006 draft. Leonard and Hill are a wash.

[Brad8888]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

As long as the Pacers had gotten a point guard since then, yes.

I seem to recall some static coming from Hill after he got back to town about some kind of mistreatment during an outing he had at a soccer field(?) or something that came off as him being very much a selfish person with a sense of entitlement. Now he plainly has some kind of issue that causes him to quit, and yet he still lashed out at fans who booed the Pacers' effort.

Despite the glowing words from Pop about what an important player he was to the Spurs and how they hated to lose him, I suspect the truth is that they wanted to move him due to his tendency to disappear. If Hill was actually that important to them, they probably would have kept him. Hill wasn't really very old at the time of the trade IIRC.

I also suspect that Granger would have remained with the Pacers and Lance probably would have been traded for a veteran point guard before he gets paid, and his immaturity would have been replaced in the starting lineup by a younger version of Paul, especially on the defensive end.

So, absolutely, I think the team would be better today.

[fwpacerfan]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

No

[Pace Maker]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

Eh, I'm more bothered by Bird passing on Rondo in the 2006 draft. Leonard and Hill are a wash.

Bird choosing Hansbrough over Ty Lawson and Jrue Holiday was much more obvious how terrible of a decision it was.

[eldubious]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

The more I think about it what if the Pacers kept Leonard and traded Granger for an expiring and draft picks. The team could have picked up Vuevic, Reggie Jackson, Shumpert in 2011 and maybe Lamb or Dieng down the line.

Possible line-ups

Hibbert (Vuevic)
West
Leonard
George
Collison Lance (Jackson)

[pacer4ever]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

I was so happy when Leonard fell to us, I really wanted us to draft him, felt like we got away with a steal, I thought he was exactly what we needed, then we traded the pick, heart was broken, and we got Hill, I was not all the way happy with the trade, but was like hey atleast we get a 2nd rounder out of it, then I found out that we gave up our second rounder as well, and then I was sad again...

With all that said I think we would be in a similar situation honestly, but probably a little more consistent, PG's would have came along we would have grabbed one from free agency if we needed. I would not have minded that 2/3 combo at all, possibly the strongest 2/3 defensive combo in the league, on competition would be Wade and James in my opinion.

But oh well, it is what it is, who really knows how he would have developed with the Pacers, before the draft I viewed him as an extremely hard worker and that is one of the big reasons I think he is where he is now, I felt him and PG would have pushed each other to greatness.

I was stunned he fell I thought he would go top 5 and worst case scenario was 6th to the Wizards who seemed like a perfect fit for each other.

I had both he and Chris Singleton rated about equal both going top 5ish. I really missed on Singleton, classic case of a bad apple IMO. He had the talent but learning about his work ethic not surprised his career is where it is at. I was shocked they fell one had a reason(Laziness) but Kahwi didn't.

[pacer4ever]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

No crystal ball, but you'd assume collison would be kept around as the starting point guard.

It's obviously a win on talent but it's unfair considering they drafted Leonard FOR the spurs. No telling who they would have picked for themselves. Not likely another SF.

Not true the Pacers almost scrapped the trade because Leonard fell. He was the guy they wanted as well.

The Pacers swallowed hard and agreed. There was still one problem left: Indiana loved Kawhi Leonard. The Pacers had him about no. 5 or no. 6 on their draft board, and they thought very hard about scrapping the Hill deal and just taking a guy they never expected to be alive at no. 15. “When Kawhi ended up being there, we had to think about taking him,” Morway says. “But we already had Danny Granger and Paul George. That’s what made it a little easier for us.”

http://grantland.com/features/analyz...erence-finals/

[FanOfPacer]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

collison had his flashes of brillance and i certainly liked the games he exerted his offensive prowess at times.

however, he could be crigeworthy at times. darren collison is in a tough spot hes either going to be the best backup pg in the league (and this season he proved that with clippers) or a starter on any other team but he who wont always live up to expectations.

neverthless, we traded him awhile ago so it doesn't matter... but I do enjoy seeing him thrive in his home town of LA this season. When he was killing it on new orleans his rookie year when cp3 got injured people started to over rate him. Him and david west made a good duo in new orleans and collison helped in bringing dwest to the pacers. not to mention, 2-3 yrs ago the pacers were really building on something that seemed special.

The previous 2 seasons (not including this one), were my 2 favorite years to be a pacer fan. This season...well it kind of had a bad ending especially with the heat stepping on our throats in game6. But I have full confidence that Larry bird will go back to the drawing board and we are going to figure things out. After all there are teams in the nba with literally no hope of competing anywhere near playoff level. We are lucky to have paul george who can become/already has performed at a super stars level as well as lance stephenson who is grossly unpaid. As bad as it felt to be a pacer fan we did make the ECF and lost to a super team in its prime. If the heat beat san antonio and 3peat I am ready to admit this miami team is incredible despite my hatred for miami fans. Off topic rant? Yep, sorry.

[TinManJoshua]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

DC wasn't all that good on D. A lot of Anti-Hill people will point to a 4 minute stretch of the 2nd quarter of game 3 vs. the Magic three years ago but that's like taking the game where David West hit a three and calling him a stretch 4.

[pogi]

Re: Would we be a better team right now if we would have kept K. Leonard?

I don't know....it depends if everyone feels that Paul would've flourished as sg.

One thing I do remember, is when we drafted him...my first reaction was "Granger's gone!"