Is Myles Turner Worth it? Or do our other Big Men need to step up their game?

[NuffSaid]

Okay, so we have Myles Turner, Daniel Theis and Goga Bitadze as our Centers. It's pretty clear if Turner doesn't get traded any time soon, he'll be the Pacers' starting Center. The question is:

"Is Myles Turner worth keeping with his skill-set at $20M/annually (FA, 2023) or do our other bigs, i.e., Theis and Goga, need to step up their game?"

To the stats!

Turner: 12.7 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 2.3 BLK, 48.9 FG% @ 28.7 MPG

Theis: 7.6 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 0.9 BLK, 54.5 FG% @ 19.6 MPG

Goga: 5.0 PPG, 2.0 RPG, 0.9 BLK, 47.7 FG% @ 11.8 MPG (Correction)
Source: ESPN.com, Player Stats (Edit)

I've crunched the numbers and based off their scoring...

Turner scores on avg. 2.25 ppm

Thies scores on avg. 2.57 ppm

Goga scores on avg. 2.36 ppm

Based on those numbers, it would take Theis an additional 9.1 MPG to reach Turner's scoring average and Goga a whopping 16.9 MPG. Neither player comes closed to matching Turner on blocks or rebounds per game. So, is Turner worth keeping and eventually paying $20M/per year OR does Theis and Goga need to really step up their game?

[Rogco]

your Goga block numbers are way off. Turner averages (career) 2.9 blocks per 36, Goga (career) averages 2.8 blocks per 36

[able]

your ppm are incorrect

[PacerDude]

your ppm are incorrect

Yeah - I think it's bass-ackwards. Looks like Minutes per Point. But still - a legit comparison.

That said - Goga = bust. Theis = filler for the trade, might be a serviceable backup - but nothing more. Myles - I think Omas got in his way at times. I would like to see what he can do with the new guys before making a decision. He brings solid rim protection and isn't a bad 3PT guy. Other teams have to acknowledge him on those. He's certainly vilified on here by MANY, but there needs to be a 5th starter on every team. The Pacers could do worse for their 5th.

[Rogco]

Yeah - I think it's bass-ackwards. Looks like Minutes per Point. But still - a legit comparison.

That said - Goga = bust. Theis = filler for the trade, might be a serviceable backup - but nothing more. Myles - I think Omas got in his way at times. I would like to see what he can do with the new guys before making a decision. He brings solid rim protection and isn't a bad 3PT guy. Other teams have to acknowledge him on those. He's certainly vilified on here by MANY, but there needs to be a 5th starter on every team. The Pacers could do worse for their 5th.

My problem with Turner is that he is in a contract year. I foresee him playing well if he starts for us. But there is no scenario where we should pay him a large long-term contract. IMO he has to be traded before the end of the trade deadline this year.

I kind of want Goga to start and the Pacers to tell him to be an enforcer. Bring that EuroBasket toughness to the team. If it doesn't work, so be it, nothing lost apart from some games that we would probably lose anyway. Also, I wanted to type that I'm agog for Goga.

[NuffSaid]

your Goga block numbers are way off. Turner averages (career) 2.9 blocks per 36, Goga (career) averages 2.8 blocks per 36

Thanks for catching that. I've corrected his block numbers in my post. As for your other numbers, you're going by "per 36 game" averages. I used career averages per ESPN.com.

[PacerDude]

My problem with Turner is that he is in a contract year. I foresee him playing well if he starts for us. But there is no scenario where we should pay him a large long-term contract. IMO he has to be traded before the end of the trade deadline this year.

I kind of want Goga to start and the Pacers to tell him to be an enforcer. Bring that EuroBasket toughness to the team. If it doesn't work, so be it, nothing lost apart from some games that we would probably lose anyway. Also, I wanted to type that I'm agog for Goga.

Well, just because he's in a contract year - does that automatically mean he has to be traded ?? Is a reasonable extension (no - I have no idea what that number would be) simply off the table because it's his last year on his current deal ?? Will the Pacers be doing that with every player in their contract year ?? Or should they ??

And when has Goga ever shown any toughness ?? Besides to an assistant coach ?? He's shown nothing so far in his NBA career. I don't see him all of a sudden getting up to starters level. He's had opportunities - he's failed miserably in all of them. Come on - it was a poor pick.

[NuffSaid]

your ppm are incorrect

How do you figure my math's not mathing? Take a players minutes per game and divide that by point per game and you get the average points per minute.

Theis: 19.6 mpg / 7.6 = 2.57 ppm

Goga: 11.8 mpg / 5 = 2.36 ppm

Turner: 28.7 mpg / 12.7 = 2.25 ppm

Yeah - I think it's bass-ackwards. Looks like Minutes per Point. But still - a legit comparison.

That said - Goga = bust. Theis = filler for the trade, might be a serviceable backup - but nothing more. Myles - I think Omas got in his way at times. I would like to see what he can do with the new guys before making a decision. He brings solid rim protection and isn't a bad 3PT guy. Other teams have to acknowledge him on those. He's certainly vilified on here by MANY, but there needs to be a 5th starter on every team. The Pacers could do worse for their 5th.

How is "Points per Minute" any different from "Minutes per point"? If you score 2 pts every 10 minutes, it's not any different from saying it took (blank player) 10 minutes to score 2 points. It's the same thing. That said, I agree with you on Turner and how he was used in the past w/Sabonis here. My hope is now that he's gone and we have two pass-first Point Guards, Myles Turner will be forced to be much more mobile and stop waiting around the perimeter for 3pters. (Though that's more of a coaching decision/player utilization than player's choice, IMHO.)

[NuffSaid]

My problem with Turner is that he is in a contract year. I foresee him playing well if he starts for us. But there is no scenario where we should pay him a large long-term contract. IMO he has to be traded before the end of the trade deadline this year.

I kind of want Goga to start and the Pacers to tell him to be an enforcer. Bring that EuroBasket toughness to the team. If it doesn't work, so be it, nothing lost apart from some games that we would probably lose anyway. Also, I wanted to type that I'm agog for Goga.

I agree except I'd rather see Daniel Theis get that opportunity over Goga. He just seems to me to be much more experienced but has rarely got a chance to show what he can do...much like how Jermaine O'Neal was under utilized by Portland before coming to the Pacers. I kinda see the same thing potentially playing out for Theis if given the chance.

I'm not sold on Goga yet. I just don't think his basketball IQ is there yet for the NBA. To me, he hasn't been able to turn on that switch that allows him to know when he's playing in the NBA vs when he's playing EuroBasketball. He may know he's playing in the NBA, but he still wants to play as if he's under Euro league rules. The language barrier is becoming less of a problem, but I don't think he's quite there yet development-wise. Maybe more minutes will solve that, but with so many bigs on this roster - especially young, hungry talent - I'm not sure if Goga will get many more opportunities here, especially as long as Turner remains in a Pacers uniform.

[Rogco]

Well, just because he's in a contract year - does that automatically mean he has to be traded ?? Is a reasonable extension (no - I have no idea what that number would be) simply off the table because it's his last year on his current deal ?? Will the Pacers be doing that with every player in their contract year ?? Or should they ??

And when has Goga ever shown any toughness ?? Besides to an assistant coach ?? He's shown nothing so far in his NBA career. I don't see him all of a sudden getting up to starters level. He's had opportunities - he's failed miserably in all of them. Come on - it was a poor pick.

Yes, it does mean he has to be traded, or else he leaves for free and we're all pissed off. There is no such thing as a reasonable extension for Turner to stay with the Pacers. He has been on the trading block for 3 years, is probably sick of this team, and the Pacers shouldn't be paying any center on their roster over 12mil unless he's an all star.

Goga has shown a lot of toughness off the court, but doesn't seem to have his head in the right place to play basketball. As for whether he's at starter-level, what does it matter? This team ain't competing for anything except the top pick in the 23 draft. If he doesn't make it, so what? Better to start Goga for 3 months and suck then start Turner for 3 months and suck, then watch Turner leave for nothing in the summer.

[Tony Valente]

Take a players minutes per game and divide that by point per game and you get the average points per minute.

Theis: 19.6 mpg / 7.6 = 2.57 ppm

Goga: 11.8 mpg / 5 = 2.36 ppm

Turner: 28.7 mpg / 12.7 = 2.25 ppm



How is "Points per Minute" any different from "Minutes per point"? If you score 2 pts every 10 minutes, it's not any different from saying it took (blank player) 10 minutes to score 2 points. It's the same thing.

Sir, are you OK? (minutes / game) / (points / game) = minutes / points = mpp

Also, 2.57 ppm would be 92 points per 36 mins.

[PacerDude]

Sir, are you OK? (minutes / game) / (points / game) = minutes / points = mppAlso, 2.57 ppm would be 92 points per 36 mins.

That would be a record - no ??

[kent beckley]

your Goga block numbers are way off. Turner averages (career) 2.9 blocks per 36, Goga (career) averages 2.8 blocks per 36

Now look at their foul numbers, lol. Goga would foul out of most games.

[NuffSaid]

Sir, are you OK? (minutes / game) / (points / game) = minutes / points = mpp

Also, 2.57 ppm would be 92 points per 36 mins.

Fine...I'll go yours and Able's way...."minutes per point". My point is it would take Goga and Theis several more minutes of playing time to meet or exceed Turner's scoring average. If the Pacers are willing to give either player more minutes and see how things shake out, I'd be fine with that. However, I think those minutes really should go to Theis and not Goga.

[Pacerized]

It doesn't matter how well Goga or Theis can step in for Turner. Our starting center 2-3 years from now is not on this roster. Move Turner for a future pick now or lose him for nothing.