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First six hours of the free agent period is now in the books, some quick thoughts

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  • First six hours of the free agent period is now in the books, some quick thoughts

    I'm not 100% sure we have seen this kind of movement in one six hour time frame before but man where there ever a lot of trades. Some teams got a whole lot better some didn't improve much if at all and a couple probably took some backward steps and then there are the Knicks. God would I love to get some kind of post from Rimfire after all of these years.

    Anyway there is just so much going on around the league that its hard to pick winners and losers yet. Believe it or not I am not saying the Brooklyn was a winner. I really truly liked the team they had last year and they needed to make some additions but I think adding both KD who won't play this year and Irving who I think is overrated (except obviously when we play him). If they could have just added KD then next year they might be great but this is going to change their dynamics and adding DeAndre Jordan is going to take Jarrett Allen off of the floor a lot unless they play him at the four. I mean I could be totally wrong here but I'm curious what happens this season with the team out there.

    Utah had an impressive day. For a small market they were very active and probably made their franchise significantly better. I'm curious as to why Portland didn't try and go after Bojan.

    The Wizards have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they do not know what they are doing. They have traded away Oto Porter Jr., Kelly Oubrie and Austin Rivers and all they have to show for it is a top 36 protected second round pick.

    Now let's talk about the Pacers.

    So far out goes Bogdanovic, Collison, Young and I'm almost 100% certain Joseph

    In comes Warren, Brogdon, Lamb and Bitadze (so far) plus we are working on an extension for Sumners.

    What started out as a great fear of bringing in Rubio (not that I hate Rubio but he is another older pg who would have just been a place holder) has turned into the shocking and I do mean shocking signing of restricted free agent Malcolm Brogdon. Do we know when that first round pick we traded for him is and are there any protections on it? We then picked up Lamb who while maybe not the star we all wanted he might be a good reserve wing who we need.

    So let me just get this out of the way right up front.

    I was wrong. I was dead wrong about how I thought this off season would go and I have never been more happy to be wrong in my life.

    I was convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that we were going to pull the "if only vic were healthy we were a top three seed" and come back with both everybody other than maybe CoJo or DC and then bring in another bum on 2 year deal.

    Fortunately KP and company played me and I fell hook line and sinker for it. His draft day statements about building through hitting a home run in the draft and then all of the lowered expectation talks on both the star and local radio had me convinced that what I thought I knew I knew. I didn't know.

    Now look before you all go patting yourselves on the back there are a couple of things to say here. One last summer was still a **** sandwhich but ultimately it didn't hurt this summer as much as I thought it might. Two while I like Brogdon a lot and Warren & Lamb for that matter, it still is not the killer signing that we could have made with all of this money or big time trade. But don't get me wrong it still good and I'm not complaining, far from it, in fact I'm pretty much thrilled considering where my expectations were.

    But and here is the rub for some of you, what we are going to be doing is taking a step back a little and we all need to just embrace it and learn to go with it. That's right I'm saying I don't think we will have the record next season we have had the two previous seasons but in the long term we will be better because of it. You won a lot of games over the past two seasons because DC, CoJo, Thad & Bogey were all veteran players who played with grit and veteran savvy. That will not be here with this group. Thad really was one of the better defenders at his position in the NBA and could guard LeBron & Giannis as well as anyone, so that is going to be missed.

    However what that group did was max itself out and honestly when real teams kicked it up a notch they could not run with them. This team will not have the savvy or the defense or the intangibles that the previous team had. But what it will have is youth, athleticism, shooting and growth potential.

    In fact I actually wrote about this very thing right after the season and to say that I am stunned the Pacers went this route would be an understatement.

    https://www.pacersdigest.com/forum/t...e-go-from-here

    But I don't want it to be said that I am shifting things, I am freely admitting that I was wrong about this off season and my thoughts on the team have done a 180 in less than the first four hours of the free agent period.

    I truly feel we are now actually building towards something instead of being maxed out and just doing the same old same old.

    Here is the odd thing for me. If we do this right and I'm still very hesitant about this but I feel better now than I did earlier today, there is a possibility that Domas & Myles might work together vs certain teams. There are some teams it just won't work but there are some it will. We now have enough shooters once Vic is back that the floor spacing might actually work. Defense will still be something to watch but hey if we can outscore them every game that is more important in todays NBA.

    Unless we make another move it looks like Leaf or Johnson will get quality minutes at the backup 4 spot. Secretly I want it to be Alize but T.J. needs to sink or swim this year. I know it was just one game but damn did he look great in that Atlanta game. Yes I know it was a blowoff game for us but they were trying to win and he was going vs their starting unit and he was tearing them up.

    Aaron Holdiay, love ya buddy but you are now the third guard. Not a bad position to be in but I have a feeling he is going to want more so this might be a season where he is shopped around and if that is the case I am okay with it. Brogdon has the height and had the experience to make that starting job his. On the other hand if we can convince Aaron to embrace that role he could really be a Vinnie Johnson for us.

    At first I thought that they said we got Jeremy Linn and I nearly died, I was getting ready to text vnzla a photo of homer simpsons butt. But then I realized it was Lamb and got a lot happier. He' not a sexy signing per se but he will be effective. He would have been the best backup wing player we had last year and I suspect he will still hold that role this year. He's still youngish and I don't think he will grow or go down right away. So if he can give us double digits off of the bench then we should be good with it.

    Overall today was a good day. We didn't get any Jimmy Butlers or Kevin Durrants but we took a step in the direction of actually setting up to be better when Victor returns. Sadly he will return just before Durrant returns but we will jump off that bridge when we get to it.

    Last season's off season was an F, I'm sorry but it was.

    This season's off season so far is a Solid B+, only losing a future # 1 pick keeps me from calling it an A.

    But hey the off season is just beginning so let's see what else happens.

    So with all of that in mind

    P.S. Oh I forgot to say one of the great things about getting Brogdon is that I believe this hurts Milwaukee this season. So getting him is great, hurting a division rival and best team in league (by record) is even better.
    Last edited by Peck; 07-01-2019, 01:21 AM.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  • #2
    I like most of the moves today but I don't understand why we didn't match the offer for Bojan since I believe the Jazz contract is no more than the 18 mil the team could have offered for the first year of his contract. It would have capped us out but I think we'd be a lot better off with Bojan than Lamb.
    Larry Bird qouted March 25th. 2015:

    Bird: I wanted to keep our group together because in the summer, if David and Roy opt out, we're back to zero, really. We don't have that much, so you leave your options open. If we did make a trade, I didn't want to take on a lot of contracts -- because that's what usually happens. Plus, I liked my guys. They're playing well. If we keep the core together and Paul comes back healthy, we'll be right back to where we were.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
      I like most of the moves today but I don't understand why we didn't match the offer for Bojan since I believe the Jazz contract is no more than the 18 mil the team could have offered for the first year of his contract. It would have capped us out but I think we'd be a lot better off with Bojan than Lamb.
      Warren is the replacement for Bojan, Lamb is the replacement for Evans.

      However that being said, in the short term yes Bojan is still going to be better than Warren. But can Warren grow or is he capped out right now? I'm not sure. He's avg. the same as Bogey but I don't believe he is nearly as gritty or defensively minded as Bogdanovich. But there is room to grow, Warren is only 25 so there is still room there. However one thing is that Bojan or Thad for that matter never missed games. Both Brogdon and Warren have missed significant time with injuries over the past couple of seasons. So there is that.

      But this wasn't about this upcoming season it is about the season after that and beyond. I fully expect us to drop down anywhere between 4-10 game next season.


      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

      Comment


      • #4
        First:

        Some teams got a whole lot better some didn't improve much if at all and a couple probably took some backward steps and then there are the Knicks.



        But beyond that...

        - I think the Nets will be quite formidable in 20-21, but like you I think DeíAndre Jordan taking Jarrett Allenís minutes away is just plain silly, especially since the media is suggesting itís basically to appease KD and Kyrie. But hey, I guess those are the sort of moves youíre expected to make for players of that caliber...

        - I really am not happy about losing Bogey. I think Iíve posted this like three times already, but I really wish we had just found some way to offload McDermott, preferably for a pick (even a 2nd), passed on Lamb, and just used that money to resign Bogey. And then picked up Lance or taken a chance on someone like Hezonja (who apparently signed with Portland for a minimum) to be a stopgap SG until Vic returned. Starting Bogey at the 3 with Warren as a 6th man is formidable. Relying on an injury prone player with McDermott as a backup at arguably the most important position in the game, not so much. But thatís what it is. Letís hope Warrenís 3p% from last year was no fluke.

        - All in all, I still think we might have gotten the slightest, teensiest bit better, especially in the long-view. Someone said thereís no one on the team above 26, and thatís kinda cool. And who knows, maybe a Lamb or Warren or more likely Brogdon just blows up into a bona fide All-Star. These are the sorts of moves I donít mind, even if Iím not at all too hot on Lamb

        - Iíve got to be one of the biggest beLeafers out there, I really do have high hopes for him and think he will be a 12/7/3 guy with 20-25 minutes a night, and a net positive (I.e not a sieve on defense). I guess I balance it out by not being particularly high on Holiday, who I think will basically be a Terry Rozier (which isnít bad at all, but not an All Star as some here think). Sumner and Alize as rotation players, meh, Iíll believe it when I see it.

        - my goodness the Jazz are making the right moves, Iíll wait til the dust settles before making a prediction but they do look like they could go deep. God willing they stay healthy

        - Philly made a sneaky move tonight by picking up Horford. As someone else said this does NOT bode well for us, can you think of a worse matchup for Domas-Myles than Horford-Embiid? **shudder**

        - I never thought we were going to stand pat or run it back, but I did think there was a reasonable chance we would strike out. Glad to see we didnít

        - arghh I know I already mentioned it but Iím pissed we lost Bogey, thatís going to take a few days to get over. Keeping him and getting rid of McD would have turned tonight into a home run; as such, it was only a success. Ah well, Iíll take it.

        It could always be worse. We could be Knicks fans.
        Last edited by SaintLouisan; 07-01-2019, 01:35 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          One thing that I haven't seen discussed much is the prospect of team chemistry next year. We've had such an amazing culture here (which I know some would say is overrated in the NBA) and losing Thad (especially), DC, CoJo, and even Bogie to an extent really removes a large part of that equation as well as their veteran leadership. I know Vic is, by all accounts, a big part of that as well, but he will still be out for a while. Probably fair to say that Domas and Myles are important contributors to the chemistry as well. Will just certainly be a different dynamic in that locker room and on the court next year.

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree we will miss Thad's defensive grit and leadership, but I think Brodgon will bring both of that to the point position in a way we haven't seen since Mark Jackson. Certainly worried about how we will stop the many star forwards in the league, but maybe we make some more moves.
            https://soundcloud.com/geoclipse

            Comment


            • #7
              The more I think about it, what back courts in the East are going to be better than Oladipo and Brogdon in the near future? Irving and Levert? Maybe. Walker and Smart? I don't see it. Who else?

              EDIT: Dammit now I've gone and talked myself into being excited for the future. Ugh....


              Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Peck View Post
                The more I think about it, what back courts in the East are going to be better than Oladipo and Brogdon in the near future? Irving and Levert? Maybe. Walker and Smart? I don't see it. Who else?

                EDIT: Dammit now I've gone and talked myself into being excited for the future. Ugh....
                Our backcourt, once/if/when Vic is fully healthy and recovered, should be as good as anyone in the East, if not better, I agree. Our 5 position moving forward, between the three young big men that we have, should be right up there as well. The question will really boil down to whether or not we are close or competitive at the 3 and 4 positions, which I think are big question marks as of now. Hoping for the best!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Though I liked Bogie, but when defenses were concentrated on him he was a non-factor. This new team is going to be fun. We will have better understanding with ~20 games into the regular season. Personally, I like the new mold. Healthy Dipo, improving Turner, menacing Domas plus all the new additions (I like that Brogdon, he is much taller, longer and younger than DC), plus loaded bench - looks like one of the best teams in the East. Raptors? They got very lucky with their championship run, but it looks like one and done. KL, Gasol, Ibaka - age is their enemy. Philly is OK, but Pacers match up well against them.Who else? Bucks? Sorry Giannis, you need to learn to shoot basketball, juicing up will not help you in that department.
                  West will be a bloodbath again. East? Why not Pacers?
                  12-12-2018, 09:20 PM


                  Myles Turner during Vic's postgame interview: "Tell you what the East is in trouble now boy"

                  .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I love the offseason so far and was holding out hope KP would try to extend the team's window of potential success, and that is exactly what he did. We are a young team that can go hoop. Wish Thad was still here because of our current group could use a tough leader in the frontcourt... But Malcom is a tough dude, as has already been noted.

                    Did Rondae sign anything yet? Or rumors about him? If we could pull him on a 3/4 year deal, I would be elated.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well Peck, as someone who shares your enthusiasm, I just think you're wrong about one thing.....they will be much better defensively than they have been, despite losing Thad IMO.

                      Yes, they will miss the defensive versatility Thad Young brought to the team, for certain. However, they are so much better athletically now on the wings, its ridiculous. And, Dan Burke is pretty good at teaching people to play good sound, team defense. If you give him the guys with the tools, he will deliver a great unit, I am 100% confident of that. Brogdon allows us to do more effective switching out top, which will allow our bigs to stay at home more, where they are at their best. We have another rim protector with size in Bitadze, who I actually like a lot. I dont think Bogie was a defensive asset really, just someone who played hard and had his moments. Lamb, Warren and Brogdon will be upgrades over Collison, Bogie and Thad, on defense more than anywhere else. And that's just my opinion, but to me, that's a much stronger chain, because there is no weak.link like Darren Collison. His lack of size killed us in the playoffs.

                      In this new NBA, you need multiple guys 6'5"-6'8" who can defend the entire court. And we have enough of those guys now.
                      these moves say to me, that KP think Sabonis and Turner will play better together if they can do more effective switching defensively, and I agree. Now, we should be able to do that.

                      If we can get a healthy lineup out there of

                      Brogdon
                      Oladipo
                      Warren
                      Sabonis
                      Turner

                      We will have 5 guys who have the ability to play both ends of the court, with no glaring weak link on either end. We also have really good outside shooting, on paper. We should rebound very well, on paper. Between Brogdon, Holiday and eventually Oladipo, we should have excellent guard play. We seem to have plenty of size, speed, quickness, athleticism, shooting, playmaking, defending, toughness and character. Depth is a question mark, with some intrigue and new faces there. But we definitely have more potential than we did before all this.

                      We also have some young guys the arrow is pointing up on.

                      Can Leaf be a player for us?

                      Is Aaron Holiday as good as he looks sometimes?

                      What's up with this Brian Bowen kid they signed? He certainly has some talent and might be a steal.

                      Is Goga Bitadze another talented center from overseas, or just another guy?

                      Can they put together a bench?

                      Are they too young now?

                      We will see, but it's certainly more interesting to me now.
                      Last edited by Taterhead; 07-01-2019, 03:34 AM.
                      "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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                      • #12
                        We've completely turned over the roster. (well, not completely). Go look at the roster on Pacers.com. 6 of 15 are gone. Plus Bowen replacing Reed. Only 3 replacing those 6. And I'm fine with that, the team is better now.

                        Brogdon was high on my point guard list even if he isn't very assisty. I didn't think we'd be able to get him since he was restricted. I'm thrilled.

                        Will we add a player now or wait to see what shakes out? I looked around at the free agents that are left. I wouldn't mind taking a look at Stanley Johnson on a minimum contract. We could use a tough defender off the bench. I know he hasn't panned out on offense but surely his defense is good.

                        I can't wait for summer league. We'll see our second string C and PG playing together. And Sumner and Alize can show their stuff. Those 4 could all contribute this year.

                        Lastly, there's this tweet from Pitchard. Yeah, maybe he's just being nice. Or maybe that Frank Vogel team really had issues. And maybe Nate and Thad turned things around.

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                        • #13
                          Brogdon was an RFA that we just outbid a contender for. so let's end that meme.

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                          • #14
                            I look at the roster as it stands now and realize that we are at 12 Players:

                            Brogdon / Holiday
                            Dipo ( out ) / Lamb / Sumner
                            Warren / McDermott / Alize
                            Sabonis / Leaf
                            Myles / Goga

                            The Pacers don't technically have to do anything at this point. But I go over the Salary Cap #s and see that the Pacers have roughly $5 mil in remaining Cap space ( not sure how much Sumner's extension will takeaway from this ) while still having the Room MLE at $4.7 mil.

                            Listening to KPs interview with Dakich a week back, I have some thoughts as to what will happen given what we know now:

                            1 ) KP mentions possibly look at another backup PF.

                            I don't know if that would change given that we went in a different direction by losing out on Bojan ( which I think was a Plan A ). As many have mentioned, a Sabonis/Myles frontcourt may work for some lineups. But clearly it won't work against others. Unless we go total small ball and run Warren and Alize in the PF spot, I am wondering if KP is looking for a Small ball PF that can do what Thad did for us when we had to run smaller than normal. You have to wonder if the rumor that the Pacers were looking at Aminu was an attempt to fill the frontcourt defensive void that Thad leaves behind.

                            2 ) If history tells us anything, it's that KP has always gone into the season with at least 5 frontcourt Players and 5 options at the Guard spot.

                            Last year, the frontcourt rotation was Thad/Myles/Sabonis/KOQ/Leaf. The Backcourt rotation wasDC/Dipo/CoJo/Holiday/Sumner. At the start of the upcoming season, you have to wonder if KP will do the same. We can still add an "end of the bench" Backcourt and Frontcourt Player to get to 14 with the remaining $5 mil.

                            3 ) I'm gonna be honest with you, I want to let Sumner, Alize and Leaf "sink or swim" while giving Goga the chance to play as well

                            This means not adding anyone else and therefore giving Nate a "safety blanket" Player to get in their way. If there is anytime where we have the chance to develop anyone, it's now with Dipo out for the first half of the season. Especially with Leaf, his Team option comes up in the 2020-2021 season. I really hope that he can fill the backup PF role, but honestly....I have no clue how he will do when given consistent and meaningful minutes.

                            4 ) With Thad gone, this lineup is really young. Lamb, McDermott and Dipo are literally the oldest Players on the Team ( all 27 years old ).

                            Unfortunately, you really wonder if KP is going to add someone to not only fill the frontcourt void that Thad left behind but also his veteran leadership that we will now be sorely missed ( Which goes against my above point ).

                            Thoughts?

                            Last edited by CableKC; 07-01-2019, 04:25 AM.
                            Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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                            • #15
                              Vic is our vet. all these dudes are good solid pros. no need for anybody to show them the ropes. shouldn't be anyway. Myles is the true cornerstone, close as we have anyway, and is in his 2nd deal now. don't care if he's 23 he's the face of the franchise and is well versed in pro basketball. if he's the face make him the face, if a guy is is 29 and doesn't want to listen because Myles is chronologicaly young that player is likely dumb.

                              they're young vets with extremely varied paths of getting to Indy. if they buck back on the clear cornerstones of Vic and Myles it's not gonna work.

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