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I have never heard one of the Simons put out there they want a championship. Maybe they do but under a very restrictive set of criteria.
The Rules of Pacers Digest
Hello everyone,
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"
"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?"
In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*""Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?
"In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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One example of many from Herb https://www.wthr.com/article/pacers-...finish-the-job :Originally posted by owl View Post
and one from heir apparent Steve https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...hiz/966332001/ :"I want him to finish the job," said Simon when asked about Bird's future. "We're talking about different scenarios. We'll get to some conclusion eventually. I would like him around as long as he wants to be."
Asked if "finishing the job" means winning an NBA championship, Simon responded, "I think that's what it's all about."
I think you are confusing that with what you WANT them to say, which is something to the effect of "We promise to never win another game until we get a stable full of #1 draft picks which will guarantee a leap from worst to the NBA championship, just as it has for every other team in the NBA but us. So, ticket buyers, keep spending money to watch us lose for the next 10 years! It'll be fun!"“Would there be anything sweeter?” Simon said. “I would have the greatest tears in my eyes watching Herbie with the banner.”BillS
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...Comment
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Simons doesn't need to as he doesn't have any pressure in doing so, I mean go ahead and check local sports writers and see what they say about Pacers compared to Colts, for Pacers they are always talking about "what a great franchise, chemistry and the consecutive playoffs appearances", every single article by Kravitz/Doyle and others feels more like a Pacers job application than a journalist doing his job.Originally posted by owl View Post
On the other hand if Colts don't go all in and try to go for a Championship every single year this same "journalists" would tell us about how mentally unfit is Jim Irsay is and how much cocaine he did the night before.@WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!
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Honestly I wouldn't mind taking a chance on Hezonja. Should be cheap too.Originally posted by owl View Post
IMO we need to go all out for a star (Kemba ideally), re-sign Bogey, and then scour the market for diamonds in the rough to supplement our young bench. I think if we're smart and Dipo comes back even 65% of what he was last year, that's a 50-win, second round team.Comment
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While I agree with you and do believe that the Simons also want if at all possible a championship. Even you must admit that there is also the attitude that making the playoffs in any form no matter the end result is considered a success. In some seasons it should be btw, I won't argue that. However there are years where just making the playoffs should not be the goal.Originally posted by BillS View Post
Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13Comment
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Just don't bring Lance back. If we get to mid September and Lance isn't here, I will look back and say it was a good summer. I am seriousComment
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True, but we haven’t been in that situation for the last two years. Post PG trade we were expected to win 30 games, we made the playoffs, this year we lost our leader that the team was built around, we could t be expected to do much more than we did. So unless you are judging this front office for the last regime’s issues, let’s see what happens before we get to down on the group we have right now.Originally posted by Peck View PostComment
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I agree about the actual day to day basketball running part of it ie. Pritchard and company. However I thought we were specifically talking about the Simons. In which case we have since 1983 to look at.Originally posted by kent beckley View Post
Again to be clear I revere Herb Simon. He is the reason we have a team in Indy. I do believe he has always done what is best for the franchise and I do believe he would spend money even over the tax if he thought it would win a title.
However I also do believe that there are times where he is content making the playoffs and that permeates the management group no matter who that management group is.
Also to be clear it is not easy to win a title, no matter where you are. So I don't fault him for the way he runs things. It's a safe way of running things and from a business perspective it makes a lot of sense.
Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13Comment
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I think there’s a relatively good chance he comes back actually. We need a cheap backup guard and, well, he’s Lance.Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
Sorry.Comment
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I truly believe this continues to be the most ridiculous myth about the Pacers. If Herb was CONTENT just making the playoffs, he could have done it over the last two decades without ever going over the salary cap, much less dipping into the LT during the O'Neal years. We could coast along getting 8th place in the East year after year on rookies and second year contracts and no superstars at all. The argument people use to bolster the myth is that getting to the playoffs is a shrewd business move, but spending boatloads more than you have to in order to do it is a stupid business move. So, somehow, he's this brilliant businessman who puts butts in the seats but a moronic businessman who spends twice what he has to in order to do it.Originally posted by Peck View Post
People have come to this conclusion because he has said the goal every year is to make the playoffs - not "only" make the playoffs, and never once has he said anything to the effect of, "well, we made the playoffs, that's all I ever want." The strategy his attitude prevents is The Process - nothing else at all. He will not stand for putting together a team that will suck on purpose for multiple years in order to get a scratch-off for the draft lottery that is more than likely to come up "you lose" every single time.
For those trying to claim that the unwillingness to go into the LT is proof of the pudding, I have some questions. What FA who could have been convinced to come here without being outbid by another team would you stand in front of Herb and say was worth triple his paycheck (remember, going over the LT means the player salary PLUS the loss of the below-LT income PLUS the luxury tax himself)? Does that player guarantee a championship? If your answer is "well, you should take the shot and see what happens," please remind me never to invest in any business dealings you might come up with. "Hey, that property has a 3% chance of being worth a million dollars in 10 years. Let's spend a million on it just to see what happens!"
I see people in here talking about managements unwillingness to go after FAs in the same breath that they mention wanting to go after a FA who was on the "holy crap these guys suck no wonder PG left!" list. So the FO is terrible because they wanted to go after a FA but didn't follow through because the franchise player didn't think they were any good so they were stupid to even mention it but boy were they stupid not to go after that player and it's all because Herb is cool with first round outs every year.
So much of this is because no one in the media cares enough about the Pacers to dig into any FA rumors involving major FAs coming here because there's more $$ and eyeballs in digging into the rumors those FAs are going to the Lakers, Knicks, Warriors, or other rich or hot team. Therefore rumors aren't reported and therefore everyone around here has it as a God's Honest Truth that the Pacers FO doesn't call agents, doesn't try to get into deals, and basically just plays cards all day while telling Herb they got this.
It is frustrating to be where we are, but crapping out for a decade brings a decade of horrible experiences and no guarantee of a championship. I'd venture to say most of the people in favor of such a path would be perfectly happy just not going to a Pacer game for that decade period while they got their suckiness out of their system - well, maybe they'd avail themselves of the $1 bargain tickets sold to get some people in the stands to make the sponsors think someone is watching their logos, or getting a buddy stupid enough to buy season tickets to give them one from time to time - but boy, they'll be all over the "I have been a loyal Pacer fan for my whole life and supported them through thick and thin" should they go through a good period (I saw that in Atlanta - I could meet every person in the stadium at a Braves game before they went worst-to-first, and I didn't recognize any of the people who later claimed to have been there for "every game".)
Look, I get it. If you aren't out for a championship, why are you playing? But if, as a fan, the only thing that will satisfy you in any given year is a championship that year, you're putting in a lot of years of misery for a fractional hope of ever being happy.
What really gets me is that this is all coming back up again after a two year period where EVERYONE FREAKING EXPECTED THE PACERS TO BE TERRIBLE AND THEY TURNED OUT NOT TO BE. So the big disappointment is that the team that was supposed to suck didn't not suck enough.Last edited by BillS; 04-30-2019, 04:59 PM.BillS
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...Comment
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Vince Carter coming back for another season, surely he gets straight to the top of the list for our 12.01am signing for the Summer.Comment
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Here we go again.....we must tank or barely try. No in between.Originally posted by BillS View Post
They signed Doug McDermott at 12:01. You think they are trying to lure big name free agents? Give me a break Bill. They didn't try at all, ir they dont blow their cap space on a 10th man at 12:01. You must be the most gullible man alive.
You post this ridiculously long winded post to explain away the fact Simon has openly said he absolutely won't go into the luxury tax. He said it, more than once too, and backed it up with actions. You cant compete without doing so. So no matter how long winded your post gets, you cant deny it with a straight face. He doesn't want to compete, or he would spend. Period.
He is far more concerned with using tax dollars to bolster his personal wealth. And the proof is in his actions, which is how you get to truth.
He stopped going into the tax so he can make more money. Once it became more profitable to avoid the tax, that's exactly what he has done. That's a fact. He lies about the dire financial situation the team is supposedly in to take advantage of taxpayers, repeatedly. Thats another fact. He never mentions how the team is worth damn near a billion dollars, after he bought it for 14 million or whatever it was. That's quite a ROI. But he never brings it up because he is a liar and an extortionists. He rarely goes to games. That's a fact. He doesn't even live in Indiana, and neither does anyone else in his immediate family. Thats another fact.
He is using the small market excuse to extort tax dollars. And the proof is in his actions. He is just one of many billionaire ******** doing so, but it doesn't excuse it just because we love the Pacers and are afraid to lose them. He just got us again btw. No article in the paper beforehand this time, just a notice. Now they will have their own plaza, funded by taxpayers, benefitting the Simon family. E-X-T-O-R-T-I-O-N 101
Think about it. Why would you keep investing more time and money into a losing proposition that apparently loses money every year? Because the money is free and the evaluation of the team is just as good as cash for his family. That's why. Despite the boohooing about losing money, he just keeps expanding anyways. The Pacers have never been in a better place financially, and he has never complained more, despite that.
The city cant even fix its million+ potholes, but they have money for old Herbie to get a plaza? And you're okay with this? That's the problem. I used to be just like you, but then I figured out his game, and I'm now too old to look the other way.
Fund your own plaza you ****ing *******. Borrow some money against your assets like everyone else. Rich douchebags makes me sick.
Here's an article written just yesterday detailing the levels of extortion hes subjected us to.....
https://deadspin.com/pay-to-play-is-...1834338811/amp
But he cant afford to go into the tax.
Last edited by Taterhead; 04-30-2019, 07:40 PM."Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"Comment
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If we truly want to develop Aaron, then this absolutely cannot happen, periodOriginally posted by SaintLouisan View PostComment
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Yep there is no better way to make money than to do nothing but aim for playoffs and that’s it.Originally posted by Taterhead View Post
Team evaluation keeps going up every year (1.3 billions this year) plus subsidies and the taxes they don’t have to pay and they still complaint about not having enough money to build a championship team GTFO.
By the way here is an article from an outside journalist (because Kravitz, Greg and the other ones are too busy kissing Simmons a$$)
about the subsidies and money given to the Simmons https://twitter.com/basketballtalk/s...281079296?s=21@WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!Comment
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The Pacers share of TV revenue pays the players, the city pays for the arena and operating expenses, his original investment has increased in value 1000%........but he still cant make money? People actually believe this?Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
Hes a con man. All he has to do is use that money to build the best bball team he can, and honestly I'm ashamed to say I would look the other way, but he cant even do that for us, so F him.
"Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"Comment
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