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If Evans and Collison decide not to play basketball we won't win without Vic and Myles.
Collison shouldn't play a meaningful minute for this team.
Collison shouldn't play a meaningful minute for this team.
The Rules of Pacers Digest
Hello everyone,
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"
"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?"
In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*""Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?
"In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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collins at least looks like he's sort of trying, which is more than i can say for evansOriginally posted by PacersHomer View PostComment
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I was at the game tonight and got a great view of us sucking. Too many players forced up bad shots. Too much selfishness not enough team basketball. That said the defense was laughable. LA is gonna hit turn around Js, I’ll live with that. But we tried to put Thad on LA and he did better than Domas but it created more trouble. Honestly there way too many defensive breakdowns. We need a star for breakdowns bcuz tonight had to be a season record. In cha they hit some contested shots, SA never needed to. Lastly, why can’t we get a look at summer? He looked amazing in preseason. We need defenders and guys that move without the ball and tonight Holiday was lost on defense and completely 1 dimensional on offense looking for his shot.Comment
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Exhibit A as to why Sabonis is not a starting center for this team as it's constructed. There goes our top-3 defense. Aldridge with 33 points in this game vs. 15 (on 5 of 18 shooting) when Myles played. And the Spurs scored 15 more points vs. when Myles played. Interesting how that works... but keep using the other teammates as scapegoats and pointing to an irrelevant gaudy box score as proof he had a "good" game. We need those two on the court together. They're not nearly as effective without the other. But, at least Myles helps the overall team with his defense regardless of who he plays with... oh, and we win games.Comment
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Wow the next game is # 20 on the season. It is very possible that we may hit the 20 game mark with a 3 game losing streak. It will give very skewed reviews due to injury's playing a big part in this. But injury's or no there are a few things from this game that need to be said.
1. Yes injury's played a large part in tonight's loss. Victor & Myles being out certainly hurt both on court production and the rotations. Sabonis while playing certainly was hobbled and did not have any type of first step or hops at all. So no matter what I say below remember I am already admitting injury's play a significant part in tonight's loss.
2. Doug McDermott played 14 of the most useless minutes I've ever seen played. In his 14 minutes on the floor he took one shot (1) shot and missed it. That was the sum total of his evening. No steals, blocks, assist or hell even fouls or turnovers. Now we have all given him the benefit of the doubt in saying that our offense does not really run much (if any) for him. But at some point in time you have to step up and do something/anything to make some form of impact on the game. Foul somebody if nothing else just to let us know you are there. Now who do we believe here. Do we believe Nate who has stated over and over he wants ball movement and off the ball movement or do we believe that Doug is really doing what Nate tells him to do and just goes and stands around rarely moving off of the ball. Look most of the time he is with Evans who is allergic to passing to Doug I guess but that wasn't the case tonight. He often was in with Joseph & some with Holiday. These guys are willing passers even if they are not great at it. How about get in there and fight for a rebound or set a pick or something anything. I hated his signing over the summer, I still do. But I did at least expect something more than this.
3. As useless as McDermott was he still wasn't as ineffective as Tyreke Evans. 1-12 from the floor? At least McDermott was just useless he wasn't a detriment like Tyreke was. Also don't want to make a big deal of it but there was a play in the 4th that the entire team stood up and cheered for, every player but one that is. Evans set there and just looked forward. He was a willing passer for the most part, still will not pass to McDermott in the corner to save his life. But yea our two main off season signings were giant turds tonight.
4. Darren Collison has not had a solid overall game for awhile now. Tonight was no exception, in fact he was actually as bad as Evans with the exception he was passing a little better. But Joseph has clearly been outplaying him for weeks now.
This brings me to a point that I am wondering about. I wonder how good our team chemistry really is? Is it great as long as people who are starting get to keep their spots? Would the team crumble if we benched Collison or Young or Turner? Would there be internal fighting that would spill out? I have no idea but I wonder. I am saying this on a night that Sabonis started and frankly IMO did not really have that good of a game. I mean it says something when I think you have a bad game and you still come out with 19 points and 16 rebounds. But he should have been starting for weeks now, again I don't care if it is for Thad or Myles but Domas should be starting. But we will not come off of that starting five no matter what, we treat them like they are the 80's showtime Lakers or Celtics. I just don't get it. Does Nate really not believe in changing lineups? Is he under orders from above as to who to play? Or does he think that there would be internal fissures if he did?
Again without Victor & Myles available and Domantas hobbled it is hard to be to upset by the loss. But man there really are some trends that go beyond these past two games.
Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13Comment
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We have a serious talent problem. Problem is that we don’t have enough of it. Worse problem is that there isn’t any obvious ways of getting more. The Pacers have never and likely will never be able to sign impact FAs. David West was coming off an ACL tear and didn’t have a lot of suitors.
Sans KOQ, this off season looks like an all time bust that we’ll remember for years.
Turner supporters have some legitimate reasons to talk about his impact on games.
However the way they are galavanting around after this game is akin to a person holding up a broken clock that reads 6:15 at precisely that time to declare its accuracy. Then once that moment is passed, the we all have to wait awhile before the clock is useful again.
He would have helped tonight for sure, but c’mon....the way people are acting its as if he had his best game of the season in the only one he hasn’t played.
Myles would have helped, but unless they were going to let him play on stilts, no one was stopping those Aldridge fade-aways.
Now, Domas did not have a great game. His stats were gaudy, but anyone watching could easily see that LA was more than he could handle tonight. Now whether that’s because of his ankle, Aldridge hitting everything, just being a perennial all-nba player, or probably just all of the above. He has to become more willing to take that jumper he passes up multiple times each game.
Ultimately, much like everyone here, I hope that Turner and Sabonis can compliment each other....and it’s looking more and more likely. Thad is definitely a bench player at this point, a valuable one....but his serious lack of offensive prowess is very harmful.
With Collison being a dumpster fire that has lost a step, it’s imperative that Thad give us something. Boy the Pacers should really start their best players.
Doug McDermott’s review is the exact same as Spinal Tap’s album “Shark Sandwich.”
Evans won’t be here by the end of the year. He is either getting traded or being told to stay home. Something about his attitude and chemistry seem very much unlike the rest if the team. I believe he has far more interest in showcasing himself for the off season than he does in playing winning basketball. He’s already been suspended once. I just don’t see him here in April.
I hope we re-sign Bojan. Not at any cost, but he plays in a way that I believe contributes to wins.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHouse Name: Pacers
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House Words: "We Kneel To No King"Comment
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I fully expected that Bojan & Thaddeus would be our key guys to trade this season, but as the season has gone on I think it'll be Tyreke (expiring $12.4mil) & Collison (expiring $10mil) that we should look to move. I don't want to let Bogdanovic go, unless it's for one heck of a talent, 16ppg on 52% from downtown is down right absurd.Originally posted by Peck View Post
If we could turn that money into either a star PG (I'm happy we have our answers at SF (Bogdanovic) & PF (Sabonis)) or a legit scoring wing off the bench.Comment
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I really don't think we have a lack of talent. We have an All-NBA player in Oladipo, an All-Star level big in Sabonis (Yeah I think he is good enough) & one of the better shot blockers as well as defensive anchors in Myles Turner. Bogdanovic is proving to be one of the craftiest & efficient scorers in the NBA, CoJo is one of the better defensive PG's in the game & his offense this year has been awesome that right there is a hell of a starting 5.Originally posted by Diamond Dave View Post
Now Collison, Evans & McDermott have been disappointing no doubt, but 2 of them on expiring deals that could be flipped into some better bench production. Thad Young is a Swiss army knife & would be a huge bench asset for us if he happy to accept the role. I say do it now, get him comfortable there and it might mean we can pay him less in the Summer given he knows his role.
If we started: Turner-Sabonis-Bogdanovic-Oladipo-Joseph with a bench of Thad Young, Aaron Holiday, Kyle O'Quinn not too mention our up & comers Leaf, Sumner & Johnson we have a very strong team without having to do much but change some rotations. Like I said we have $22mil to trade out as well to maybe get us a player that we thought we had in Evans. (I think we may have to eat McDermott's contract and call it a poor signing)Last edited by festar35; 11-24-2018, 04:16 AM.Comment
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Roster has way too many lame duck players on expiring contracts. Collision is probably more concerned about where he will play next season than winning here. Our starting PF is horrible from 3. Five years ago, this would not matter. In 2018, PF must be a 3 point threat. Evans is a bad signing. Looks bored out there. Some guys have a quiet leadership style, where they secretly have passion. Reke doesn’t try and fake like he’s having a good time.His head is where Darren’s is currently, thinking about his future.Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank VogelComment
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I was optimistic about McDermott and Evans when we acquired them. Completely disillusioned now. What a waste. At least Evans is just one year. Even if one year too many. I think we need one more high level talent. I like CoJo, but I'm not sure he's a long-term starter. Clearly better than Collison right now.I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.
-Emiliano ZapataComment
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Exactly. The issue isn't a lack of talent. The issue is how we're using the talent that we have at our disposal. There's a reason why the bench is almost always outplaying the starters. That reason is that some of our top 5 players aren't starting. I agree with your starting 5. Those are indeed our 5 best players. Dipo is our best player, Domas is our second best player and the other three (Myles, Bojan, CoJo) are 3 to 5 in no particular order (it depends on the game, really). They are the 5 players that consistently give us the most. I believe I don't need to explain why Dipo and Domas are our #1 and #2. At this point, it's self-evident. Myles and CoJo give us consistent defense and they're a big part why we are a top 10 defense (and they also contribute on the offensive end) while Bojan is consistently our 2nd offensive option (averaging 16.7 PPG in November with only one game under 10 points and 5 games with 20 or more points).Originally posted by festar35 View Post
Personally, I really don't think that we're putting our players in positions to succeed. We have players who thrive on the open court (Dipo being a prime example) and yet we play at one of the slowest paces in the league. We often have an advantage inside and yet we don't go inside enough (both Myles and Domas are below 10 shot attempts per game while Reke is at 10.1). We have some great 3-point shooters and yet we are among the teams that shoot the least from 3.
Just look at Doug. He only took 1 shot in 14 minutes tonight. Same thing happened back in the first Miami game where he also only took 1 shot in 15 minutes. He has also taken only 2 shots in 7 other games this season. In total, that's 9 games of 2 shots or less in the first 19 games. Do you know how many times he only took 2 shots or less last season? Only 7 times. Throughout the whole season. And in his Dallas stint that only happened once. The other 6 were with the Knicks and it includes a game where he only played 1 minute of garbage time and another game where he played a bit less than 6 minutes.
As Peck pointed Doug will often just go in the corner and stand around without really moving. Why, though? Why this lack of player movement off the ball? Every other team who has used Doug had plays to get him open. Why don't we have any? Doug has always shown the ability to move off the ball. Heck, he has done that with us as well. Just look at the Utah game. He didn't hit a 3 in that game and yet he scored 12 by cutting to the rim. Why does he sometimes move a lot off the ball while other times just stand around?
And if we're being honest, this isn't just Doug. This is happening with every player in the team. Sometimes our players are flying around the court and moving constantly. We have played like that in every single one of our 20 or more point wins. And yet in other games we just completely freeze. The players aren't moving without the ball, no one can get open and as a result the ball sticks. And when that happens then we (quite predictably) suck. Why is this happening? Who is to blame for it? Is it the effort of the players or is it the coaching? Our announcing crew has mentioned a number of times that Nate has told the team that "if he has to call a play then we're playing too slow". I get the idea that a free-wheeling offense will play at a faster pace but let's be honest here for a second. We're already playing at one of the slowest paces in the league. We played at a slow pace last year too and the same was the case for two years ago. Nate's teams have always generally played slowly. If we are to keep playing at this slow pace then the least that we can do is call some plays.
And yes, I agree that the players do deserve part of the blame when the off-ball movement stops. I don't think that Nate is instructing them to just stand in the corner and not move. But when this same issue keeps popping up regularly then we need to look at coaching. We can't fly around the court in one game and not move at all in the next game. That doesn't make sense.Originally posted by IrishPacer
Empty vessels make the most noise.Comment
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I agree this is possible. The problem I see is I don't think Nate is going anywhere. Maybe he'll at least looks at some lineup changes.Originally posted by Nuntius View PostI'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.
-Emiliano ZapataComment
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Ι don't think that Nate is going anywhere this season either. The hope is that if those issues persist throughout the season then KP looks to do something about it in the off-season, much like the Bucks did.Originally posted by D-BONE View Post
I know that a lot of people have come to dislike this off-season's signing (although, to be fair, a lot of people were never on board with them) but in my opinion the worst move in the off-season was giving Nate an extension. And that kinda sucks because Nate deserved the extension. He did a very good job last season and rightfully got mentions as a potential COY. I was pleased with his work last season but now I'm at the point of thinking that he's holding the team back by relying on under-performing vets.Originally posted by IrishPacer
Empty vessels make the most noise.Comment
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On another forum i found such kind of riddle: "Who's shooting 70% from the field and 80% from three, and is only 7th in field-goal attempts on his team?"Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
On the other hand - he is playing the right way, we need some other players to follow this example.
BTW, Myles is unselfish as well. Sometimes i want him to shoot when he is completely wide open, but he is not taking the shot. Not sure if he tries to play the right way or if he is being afraid to take the shot.I'm really sorry because of my english (which is my 3-4 language) and I really appreciate Your patience. I hope this board will make me better
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I also want Myles and Domas to take shots that at times they turn down. I believe that the reason why they turn some potential looks down is because they often trying to get the offense in motion with constant DHOs. I do agree that both of them are unselfish and trying to play the right way.Originally posted by DeS View PostOriginally posted by IrishPacer
Empty vessels make the most noise.Comment
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