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Post game #12 Pacers vs 76ers

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Peck View Post

    I am really truly wondering about our lineups and am starting to question if this is Nate or orders from on high. I mean the Sabonis/Turner thing is more than mind boggling but the soft undersized no defense combo of McDermott and Bogdanovic is just as perplexing.
    even if it's not explicit orders from high, it's got to be clear to Nate that it's not a good idea to bench his boss' "prize offseason acquisition," at least not yet

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    • #47
      My Thoughts on Tonight: (I apologize for the crudness ahead of time)

      Oladipo is phenomenal.

      Sabonis > Embiid

      Myles has never seen a shot fake that he didn't jump at. Please stop jumping when contesting jump shots more than 5ft away from the basket.

      Thad has been horrible so far this season, he's had his moments, but if this is what he is from now on he should have gone into free agency. We really need him to wake up and start playing.

      Nate needs to **** off. This dip**** says all the right things in the pre-game interviews, then it never ****ing shows up in games. You don't want to be calling plays? If you are the team is playing too slow, then why the **** do we have one of the slowest teams in the league? Why are you always saying play faster and move the ball in these pre-game interviews and then we have one of the slowest teams that doesn't pass the ball? There is a huge ****ing disconnect between what you are saying and what I am seeing. Oh, and how many times does this starting line-up have to get down by 10+ points in the first quarter until you change it up. Last year this was a constant issue the whole season, and again this year it has been a constant ****ing issue. Even worse, why in the hell is the CoJo, Evans, McDermott, Bogdanovic, and Sabonis lineup still getting minutes? Going into tonight it was the 4th most played lineup this season, with a per 100 possession +/- of -22.2. Then it loses the game for us tonight. What kind of sane basketball coach would still play this lineup for extended minutes by choice? It is pretty damn clear this line-up is bad. It is just down right ****ing bad. Any good stretches you get out of it is an anomaly. There is no way around this, yet you Nate insists on trotting it out there at the end of the 3rd and beginning of the 4th ****ing quarter, letting the other team build a 17 point lead and gaining all the ****ing momentum. Oh, and by the way, the other version of this line-up, just switch Bogdanovic with Thad has been pretty damn good at +39.8.

      It is a testament to the quality of players we have on this team that they are good enough to overcome such a bad coach to make it a close game.

      Comment


      • #48
        We really put Nate in a bind by giving Myles that contract before next summer. Now he has to cater to Myles' ego and equity. I really think we can chalk 2 Ls this year to babysitting Myles' feelings.

        Start Sabo. #SaboBrosInSolidarity
        https://soundcloud.com/geoclipse

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        • #49
          so what is the problem with turner? low bball iq? condition? mental? or is he just not talented enough?

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Peck View Post
            This game became unwinnable the moment Nate, for whatever reason, once again decided that it would be a good idea of running a Bogdanovic, McDermott, Sabonis front line. Out of the three only Sabonis should have been in there. I have no idea what O'Quinn did to McMillan in another life but ever since he played superbly vs Brooklyn he has only been able to get into an smattering of minuets while Doug McDermott gets routine minutes every game and Bogdanovic has to play the backup 4 as well as the starting 3.

            I am really truly wondering about our lineups and am starting to question if this is Nate or orders from on high. I mean the Sabonis/Turner thing is more than mind boggling but the soft undersized no defense combo of McDermott and Bogdanovic is just as perplexing.

            Its to early to call any type of conclusions but the concerns that I was expressing on here all summer are starting to show. We had a really good quality win over Boston and beating the Spurs in San Antonio was good but we really have struggled vs teams that are potential playoff teams. That being said we still had chances to be in this game, but we just did not have enough offense or offensive minded players to get over the hump.
            Same here.

            if you remember correctly, Peck, at the last PD get-together, during our round table questioning, when asked about how any of us felt about the off-season, I was up in the air. Then, you reminded me that we signed McDermott to a contract, and I changed my answer to “I’m disappointed with what we did”. When everyone was gushing about him, I kept thinking that maybe they were seeing something that I wasn’t seeing. But how he’s been so far, is exactly what I saw “every” game I’ve watched of him. He’s borderline garbage IMO.

            One other thing I will say, is if we don’t get our **** together in the next couple of weeks, there better be lineup changes. Sorry but waiting until December to try to fix this problem is ludicrous. Right now, we look like a potential “we got schooled in the second round” playoff team to me. I really want to eat crow by seasons end for saying this, but until something, anything, changes, I’ll feel this way

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            • #51
              Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
              Our record is still pretty good. I'm hoping this is just early strangeness with the way the team is either really on or really off. I'm giving it until mid January before I step toward the cliff.
              Nah, gotta hit the panic button! Lol.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by pogi View Post

                Same here.

                if you remember correctly, Peck, at the last PD get-together, during our round table questioning, when asked about how any of us felt about the off-season, I was up in the air. Then, you reminded me that we signed McDermott to a contract, and I changed my answer to “I’m disappointed with what we did”. When everyone was gushing about him, I kept thinking that maybe they were seeing something that I wasn’t seeing. But how he’s been so far, is exactly what I saw “every” game I’ve watched of him. He’s borderline garbage IMO.

                One other thing I will say, is if we don’t get our **** together in the next couple of weeks, there better be lineup changes. Sorry but waiting until December to try to fix this problem is ludicrous. Right now, we look like a potential “we got schooled in the second round” playoff team to me. I really want to eat crow by seasons end for saying this, but until something, anything, changes, I’ll feel this way
                Yea I remember. I also was upset (to say the least) with the off season. O'Quinn was about the only one I was happy with and for whatever reason Nate just will not play him.


                Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by xtacy View Post
                  so what is the problem with turner? low bball iq? condition? mental? or is he just not talented enough?
                  I'm definitely in the minority in here when it comes to Myles but allow me to answer.

                  On his basketball IQ: It's average. He isn't a basketball savant like Jokić and Domas. He is no JR Smith either, though. Yes, it takes him about half a second to survey the situation and make the right call. He doesn't know the game as well as a vet which is something you'd expect from a 22 year old guy. And before someone mentions Domas, I'll say it again. Domas is unique. He has the best basketball smarts on the team (yes, even better than Dipo). There are only a handful of bigs who have a better basketball IQ than Domas (Jokić, Horford, one or both Gasol brother and maybe Gobert). So, we shouldn't be surprised that Domas has better basketball smarts than Myles. It would be like being surprised that Joel Embiid is bigger than Nate Robinson. It's just a fact of life. Anyway, returning to Myles' BBIQ. It's what you'd expect of a big his age. We saw Embiid tonight. Embiid is a phenomenal talent. Much more talented than Myles. But did you see his decision making at times? 5 turnovers. Ill-advised and rushed 3s. Embiid has the talent so he tries to do way too much, way too quickly. Myles definitely doesn't have Embiid's talent. So, he mostly plays within his strengths (or what his coach considers his strengths, we'll get to that later) but since he doesn't know the game as well as a vet there is that hesitation that some people consider lack of basketball IQ or lack of aggressiveness.

                  On his conditioning: He probably had such issues in the past but those no longer exist. His conditioning is great right now.

                  On the mental aspect of the game: My personal opinion is that it's a pretty normal for a young big his age. He needs to get touches to get in a rhythm like most bigs. He'll get frustrated if he's pulled but will go right back to cheering his teammates within a play or two.

                  On whether he's talented enough or not: It depends. As I said above, he's nowhere as talented as Embiid but that's something we all knew. What we kinda forgot about was that Myles was supposed to be a project when we drafted him. He was supposed to be raw. We kinda forgot about that because he played quite well early on but that never stopped being the case. He has offensive talent. He hasn't been able to put it all together yet but he has a great jump-shot, good handles for his size and he has shown improvements as a post scorer and passer. He also has defensive talent. He has honed that more than he has honed his offensive talent. He came into the league as someone with bad defensive fundamentals who could block some shots and has developed into a dependable defensive anchor. He protects the rim, defends the PnR well and has improved as a post defender. He has also shown the ability this season to do a decent job on switches against smaller players. What Myles doesn't have is rebounding talent. He lacks rebounding instincts. He doesn't have a nose for the ball. If we want him to help our team rebounding then we need him to be boxing out and to his credit that's what he's doing this season. His individual rebounding numbers will never be great but if he focuses on boxing out then he won't hurt you either. He'll be a net neutral and your team will be kinda average at it (like we are right now).

                  As for what's up, here's what I'd answer. Some of it is our system, some of it is on our expectations, some of it is on him.

                  I don't think that Nate is using him correctly. He seems to be utilized more on the block this season as opposed to in Pick and Pops. He doesn't face-up to the basket as much as he used. A fellow PDer also reported earlier in the season that Nate always yelled at Myles last season to "take it closer to the basket" and shoot a long 2 every time he took a 3 last season. That has made him tentative to take 3s and when coupled with his natural tendency to think before he acts, it takes him out of his rhythm.

                  In general, I have a lot of issues with how Nate is using some of our players this season. He is misusing our shooters. He doesn't run plays for them when they're in the court. The only one I've seen is having Doug curl off a screen on the elbow 3 about once per game. Sometimes, Domas gets that play too. Heck, he doesn't even run Pick and Pops with TJ Leaf. Why is Leaf in the corner instead of screening? Leaf literally only has 1 screen assist so far into the season. And it's not just that. He is also doing something even worse. He is playing them together. Both Peck and Eleazar talked about it but any (and I mean any) combination of Doug with either Bojan or Leaf isn't going to work. It's something that doesn't work defensively for obvious reasons and if you're not getting them shots on the other end then why are you even playing them like that? What's the point? Yeah, they do add spacing to the Reke/Domas PnR but Doug/Leaf aren't scoring then they aren't doing anything (Bojan can do some other things but not as a PF). I just cannot really comprehend this lineup at all. He also insists to play slow despite the fact that DC is still an extremely fast PG. Granted, this could be DC's fault since he has looked pretty lethargic so far (save from one or two good games) but whatever the reason it doesn't seem correct. In general, only two players seem to have played well in most games. Oladipo and Domas. And unsurprisingly, they are our two best players.

                  Now, on to the expectations part. As I said earlier, we all knew that Myles was supposed to be a raw project. I mean, before he was drafted scouts even doubted his ability to run correctly and examined his gait. He was never supposed to be good right of the gate. But he did play pretty darn well in his rookie and especially his sophomore season. That made us forgot that he was raw and he still had a long way to go. And yeah, I also fell into this trap. Myles still has the talent to become an All-Star one day but his improvements are far more gradual than they were early on in his career.

                  As for some of it being on him, I think it's obvious. He can do better. He can have less mediocre games (like the one last night) and more good games (like the one against the Bulls). I think that asking for better consistency is fair.
                  Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
                  Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

                  Panopticon

                  Originally posted by IrishPacer
                  Empty vessels make the most noise.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by the_real_lg33 View Post

                    Where’s the logic in this statement? Shouldn’t we be closer to where we finished last season than where we started it? Shouldn’t that be the comparison?
                    Some new pieces, pieces that aren't playing so well. I think they look pretty okay for now.

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                    • #55
                      We just got saricized and shametized from 3s
                      Last edited by edc; 11-08-2018, 08:22 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        I'll repeat it for clarity; if you don't run plays for Reggie he won't score.
                        Now I'm not comparing him to Doug and Bojan, but let's be fair, these guys are rhythm shooters, they excel coming of screen and catch&shoot, making their contribution "free flowing" isn't going to work, I mean how can you come of staggered screens if none of them are practised and executed as expected, P&P and P&R you can do at any moment with two players who understand each other, or if you use Domas, since he will be able to adjust on the fly.
                        In short coach is setting Doug and Bojan and a lesser extend Darren up for failure, of course that is handy because he can say "MY SHOOTERS ARE JUST NOT HITTING ANYTHING ATM" which of course is but hey, someone will believe him.

                        How is it possible that Doug for Rick worked like a charm but he comes here and he is crap? I suggest we trade Nate for Rick and heck throw in Tyreke if we must! (though i still think he can be more useful!)

                        Sabonis has one year less in this league than Myles, was supposed to be less talented is the same age, yet he plays like a big man, that rebound with 3 sixers on the same ball and he just ripped it from them? I swear that got the Dale Davis seal of approval! and Dale saw Domas playing and sat back, sure his work was done.

                        Our problem is not KP being involved with who plays and who doesn't but I'm sure I still see some remnants of a bird around there, he decided Myles (and Lance) were the talents on this team.
                        Myles is worth his contract in today's league but he can earn it by coming of the bench just as well. (just saying)

                        Oh and please stop saying Myles is a good defender, talk to me again when he can keep someone in front of him and not goes for a fake. outside his shot blocking his defense is atrocious and absolutely incomparable with Domas.
                        So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                        If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                        Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

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                        • #57
                          Looking at our schedule I predict 6-4 over the next 10, next two games being losses. So we might hit 7-7 before things get better.
                          Lifelong pacers fan

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by xtacy View Post
                            so what is the problem with turner? low bball iq? condition? mental? or is he just not talented enough?
                            All of the above honestly. He's just not very good. Not a cornerstone piece anyway.
                            Lifelong pacers fan

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                            • #59
                              We have talent on this team. Nate just needs to step up. When you have decent players who aren't performing up to their level that's all on coaching. We're a better team when everyone is involved and not just standing around watching sabonis and Oladipo.
                              Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 11-08-2018, 09:58 AM.
                              There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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                              • #60
                                Too much talent on this this roster for these kind of offensive struggles.


                                Name-calling signature removed

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