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  • Hello everyone,

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All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

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  • Nuntius
    Nuntius
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    #3751
    12-21-2015, 09:58 PM
    Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

    Originally posted by Gamble1
    What do you want me to do? Drudge up all the negative post he has written the past year? Wherever he said that the Pacers were going to be ranked top 10 defensively I must of missed that but to me I have heard it won't work or its a bad idea or its this or that in defense of Hibbert for over a year.
    You don't need to go and search every single one of my posts but you could at least attempt to say something that is even partially true. I was never negative towards the team. I was negative towards Bird. There is a huge difference between the two.

    Originally posted by Gamble1
    I like the current Pacers more than the ECF Pacers 2/3 years ago.
    And here's where it all boils down. Some people never liked our ECF team. They always complained that we didn't score a lot and that we played a "boring" brand of basketball. Those people are elated that Bird went the other way this season. They feel that they were always right in disliking that team and take any chance they get to bash that team. Thankfully, as far as I recall you aren't among the ones who bash that team.

    Edit: By the way, it's Nuntius. Nunitus isn't a word. I don't want to be a grammar nazi but this is not the first time you've gotten my username wrong
    Last edited by Nuntius; 12-21-2015, 10:04 PM.
    Originally posted by IrishPacer
    Empty vessels make the most noise.

      Comment

      • BlueNGold
        BlueNGold
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        • Aug 2005
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        #3752
        12-21-2015, 10:44 PM
        Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

        Originally posted by rabid
        To be fair we "dumped" Roy for cap space, which was used to pick up Monta, IIRC. Yes we didn't get hardly anything back from that specific Lakers transaction but I'm sure, even before we signed off on the Lakers deal, the idea was always to use that $ to grab another player. I consider a "dump" of a player to be a scenario where you want to get rid of a guy so bad you do so, even if you can't get anything back at all (such as when you're over the cap etc).

        It's a minor point, and maybe this specific post of yours isn't the right one for me to be reacting to, but I've seen you bring this up a lot, so it's worth clarifying.
        Fair point but you usually do that when a player has little value. If he really had any value we would have gotten something back in trade from someone. But we didn't.

          Comment

          • Nuntius
            Nuntius
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            • Jan 2012
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            #3753
            12-21-2015, 10:53 PM
            Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

            Originally posted by BlueNGold
            Fair point but you usually do that when a player has little value. If he really had any value we would have gotten something back in trade from someone. But we didn't.
            We took back the following:

            1) Jordan Hill

            2) The 2nd round pick that we used to get Rakeem Christmas.

            3) The cap space needed to sign Monta.

            At least, that's what everyone told me when I said that I didn't agree with the trade.
            Originally posted by IrishPacer
            Empty vessels make the most noise.

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              • BlueNGold
                BlueNGold
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                #3754
                12-21-2015, 11:00 PM
                Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                Originally posted by Nuntius
                We took back the following:

                1) Jordan Hill

                2) The 2nd round pick that we used to get Rakeem Christmas.

                3) The cap space needed to sign Monta.

                At least, that's what everyone told me when I said that I didn't agree with the trade.
                Yes Hibbert had a big contract. It's hard not to make use of the money.

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                  • MvPlumlee
                    MvPlumlee
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                    • Jul 2012
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                    #3755
                    12-22-2015, 02:24 AM
                    Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                    Originally posted by freddielewis14
                    Recent article on Hib so far this year from Laker Nation. IMO you can't play both sides of the fence. If you are saying his teammates are causing Roy to be a lousy defender, then his teammates were the reason he was elite. Elite players will be effective at what they do no matter the situation, players like Roy and Lance need the perfect scheme, coach, team, etc. to contribute which makes them not very valuable.
                    Wasn't that obvious from the start? His teammates and not so much Vogel, made him "look" great defensively. Roy is just a great rim protector that can't protect the perimeter, he is not a great defender and Vogel never called him that as far as I can remember. He always used great rim protector to describe him.

                    He protects the rim as well as anyone though. He lacks the authority to get his Laker teammates to play defense, but there is only so much you can do when you are playing with so many rooks and sophs and Kobe. A great defender and great personality like Garnett has the authority to motivate rooks and sophs on the Wolves to play defense. So it has to do with both his teammates and Hibbert, why the Lakers are among the worst in the league defensively.

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                      • MvPlumlee
                        MvPlumlee
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                        • Jul 2012
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                        #3756
                        12-22-2015, 02:39 AM
                        Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                        Originally posted by Nuntius
                        We've disagreed about Roy a lot of times but you aren't one for schandenfreude.
                        Originally posted by Nuntius
                        Schandenfreude, after all, is an emotion that makes you feel good about yourself.
                        You mean schadenfreude right? Schaden is damage in German, freude is joy. Schanden does not exist as far as I know.
                        Unless you mean schänden? But it means doing damage yourself, so it doesn't apply here.

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                          • 31andonly
                            31andonly
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                            • Nov 2006
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                            #3757
                            12-22-2015, 02:46 AM
                            Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                            Originally posted by MvPlumlee
                            You mean schadenfreude right? Schaden is damage in German, freude is joy. Schanden does not exist as far as I know.
                            Unless you mean schänden? But it means doing damage yourself, so it doesn't apply here.
                            Are you from Germany? (just wondering)

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                              • MvPlumlee
                                MvPlumlee
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                                #3758
                                12-22-2015, 05:04 AM
                                Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                                Originally posted by 31andonly
                                Are you from Germany? (just wondering)
                                Belgium. (German is one of 3 official languages) Last week I was in Germany. Got a German name as well. Also 30 years old. Nice to meet you

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                                  • BillS
                                    BillS
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                                    • Mar 2004
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                                    #3759
                                    12-22-2015, 10:27 AM
                                    Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                                    Originally posted by MvPlumlee
                                    Belgium.
                                    Hmm. Wonder why the forum curse filter failed to catch that one ...

                                    Spoiler Spoiler:
                                    Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
                                    BillS

                                    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                                    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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                                      • Gamble1
                                        Gamble1
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                                        #3760
                                        12-22-2015, 12:22 PM
                                        Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                                        Originally posted by Nuntius
                                        You don't need to go and search every single one of my posts but you could at least attempt to say something that is even partially true. I was never negative towards the team. I was negative towards Bird. There is a huge difference between the two.



                                        And here's where it all boils down. Some people never liked our ECF team. They always complained that we didn't score a lot and that we played a "boring" brand of basketball. Those people are elated that Bird went the other way this season. They feel that they were always right in disliking that team and take any chance they get to bash that team. Thankfully, as far as I recall you aren't among the ones who bash that team.

                                        Edit: By the way, it's Nuntius. Nunitus isn't a word. I don't want to be a grammar nazi but this is not the first time you've gotten my username wrong
                                        You are one of the few posters that I see on other forums and to be clear I like your responses for the most part. I disagree with many of them but this is why I call you out on using one career year for Lance to make an argument. I know first hand you are more honest in your post in that regard so I am more direct in pointing that out.

                                        To your Bird response I look at it differently surprise surprise. Bird very much embodies the Pacers organization and he deserves blame and praise along with the players. The difference is that I think everything has to be within the measure to what we actually know and that is where I think posters with overt negativity muck up these message boards with very large assumptions on matters that we have part of the truth on. IT goes both ways but I am very much an organizational fan than a player fan. That maybe the difference but regardless I very much dislike the snow ball effect PDers have because they are impatient in the process or dealing with partial information. Thats just me though so I visit this forum much less now as a result. To many pleasant people that turn too impatient on here for my liking. I was a strong supporter of Hibbert over the years but I lost heart in him as his little sly comments and mode changed for the worse.

                                        To your last point though I loved the ECF teams. I don't mind boring brand of basketball but I think the style had severe limitations on offense that paved the way for a reason to change the structure. I don't think we will ever go back to a 2 slow big man lineup ever again and I am glad for that.

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                                          • freddielewis14
                                            freddielewis14
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                                            • Jun 2008
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                                            #3761
                                            12-22-2015, 12:52 PM
                                            Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                                            I like this team, and I liked the ECF teams. Honestly, I like any brand of Pacers basketball as long as we're winning.

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                                              • Nuntius
                                                Nuntius
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                                                #3762
                                                12-22-2015, 07:26 PM
                                                Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                                                Originally posted by MvPlumlee
                                                You mean schadenfreude right? Schaden is damage in German, freude is joy. Schanden does not exist as far as I know.
                                                Unless you mean schänden? But it means doing damage yourself, so it doesn't apply here.
                                                I do. I have no idea why I put that extra -n there. I was never any good at German. I took some courses in my university but I ended up disliking the language so I never spent enough effort to learn it. Thanks for correcting me
                                                Originally posted by IrishPacer
                                                Empty vessels make the most noise.

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                                                  • Nuntius
                                                    Nuntius
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                                                    #3763
                                                    12-22-2015, 07:58 PM
                                                    Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                                                    Originally posted by Gamble1
                                                    You are one of the few posters that I see on other forums and to be clear I like your responses for the most part. I disagree with many of them but this is why I call you out on using one career year for Lance to make an argument. I know first hand you are more honest in your post in that regard so I am more direct in pointing that out.
                                                    I wasn't trying to make an argument against Lance, though. I was merely pointing out that it was a career year when it came to rebounding as well. I'm not trying to take anything away from Lance nor hold him responsible for not replicating those numbers. He's going to be in the NBA for a long time and I believe that he could replicate those numbers when he finds his perfect fit.

                                                    As for the rest, it's appreciated.

                                                    Originally posted by Gamble1
                                                    To your Bird response I look at it differently surprise surprise. Bird very much embodies the Pacers organization and he deserves blame and praise along with the players. The difference is that I think everything has to be within the measure to what we actually know and that is where I think posters with overt negativity muck up these message boards with very large assumptions on matters that we have part of the truth on. IT goes both ways but I am very much an organizational fan than a player fan.
                                                    This is indeed where the difference lies then. For me, Bird doesn't embody the Pacers organization. He is certainly an important part of the organization but he's not the most important part. Because no matter what Bird does in the summer it's up to the coaches and the players to make it work over the season. The blood and the soul of the Pacers, in my opinion, are Frank Vogel, the coaching staff, the training staff and our players. That's why in any FO-coach or FO-player disagreement I'll side with the coaches and the players. The same goes for owners, by the way. Yes, the team wouldn't exist without their money but I prefer it when they don't involve themselves with basketball matters. Which is one of the reasons why I appreciate Herb Simon for not meddling with the team and why I understand the ire that James Dolan has drawn from most Knicks fans.

                                                    Note that I talked about players in general. I'm not a player fan in the sense that I support player X and that player only. I support all Pacer players (past and current) and I try to support each one of them equally. You may have also noted that I rarely have any negative thing to say about other team's players as well. I don't appreciate the way that some people call professional basketball players scrubs, bums, cab drivers or what have you. Sure, I'll point out some flaws in some players (James Harden's defense, DeAndre Jordan's rebounding that doesn't actually help his team be a good rebounding team) but I try to be as respectful towards opposing players as I am towards our own players.

                                                    Originally posted by Gamble1
                                                    That maybe the difference but regardless I very much dislike the snow ball effect PDers have because they are impatient in the process or dealing with partial information. Thats just me though so I visit this forum much less now as a result. To many pleasant people that turn too impatient on here for my liking. I was a strong supporter of Hibbert over the years but I lost heart in him as his little sly comments and mode changed for the worse.
                                                    I don't think I'm impatient or anything. I simply disagreed with the direction that Bird pushed the team towards the summer. That's all. Other than that, I agree that we should be patient during a rebuild and that we shouldn't get overly excited after a win or overly pessimistic after a loss.

                                                    I do think that the forum has changed over time, though. Obviously, I'm not an old timer and thus I have no right to judge anyone but I do remember the forum being a bit more hospitable when I first joined. As far as I recall people weren't arguing about so many things back then. Of course, I'm certainly guilty of arguing about a lot of things in this forum so the problem could very well be me. But I do believe that the forum changed a lot during 13-14. A number of people got greedy and weren't satisfied unless we won by 20+ points. I believe that the collapse of that 13-14 team took a toll on this forum as well.

                                                    Originally posted by Gamble1
                                                    To your last point though I loved the ECF teams. I don't mind boring brand of basketball but I think the style had severe limitations on offense that paved the way for a reason to change the structure. I don't think we will ever go back to a 2 slow big man lineup ever again and I am glad for that.
                                                    Fair enough. I don't believe that our style had severe offensive limitations but it's ok to disagree on this.
                                                    Originally posted by IrishPacer
                                                    Empty vessels make the most noise.

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                                                      • Rogco
                                                        Rogco
                                                        Undefeated
                                                        • Sep 2010
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                                                        #3764
                                                        12-23-2015, 09:27 AM
                                                        Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                                                        Originally posted by Nuntius
                                                        That was an interesting article. Thanks for the link. The most interesting part for me was among the ones that you didn't bold and talked about Roy's great locker room presence. Not bad for a player that some people called a cancer while he was a Pacer
                                                        But that is the rub with Hibbert! I think he was a great locker room guy until the all star game of the 13-14 season. Do you remember young Hibbert, clowning around, including the new rookies, participating in the community?! He was a really good guy that definitely seemed to have a team first attitude. But something changed. Obviously there were the rumors surrounding his girlfriend. I believed those at the time, now I'm not so sure, but I do believe something happened that turned Hibbert from a team mate oriented player to a guy who was unhappy to be here. I never thought Hibbert was a cancer in the ******* sense, but he was a cancer in the extremely unhappy to be a Pacer sense, and for about 1 1/2 years he drug down everyone else around him (though there may have been a very good reason for that).
                                                        Danger Zone

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                                                          • BillS
                                                            BillS
                                                            Angry Old Poster
                                                            • Mar 2004
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                                                            #3765
                                                            12-23-2015, 11:39 AM
                                                            Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                                                            Originally posted by Rogco
                                                            But that is the rub with Hibbert! I think he was a great locker room guy until the all star game of the 13-14 season. Do you remember young Hibbert, clowning around, including the new rookies, participating in the community?! He was a really good guy that definitely seemed to have a team first attitude. But something changed. Obviously there were the rumors surrounding his girlfriend. I believed those at the time, now I'm not so sure, but I do believe something happened that turned Hibbert from a team mate oriented player to a guy who was unhappy to be here. I never thought Hibbert was a cancer in the ******* sense, but he was a cancer in the extremely unhappy to be a Pacer sense, and for about 1 1/2 years he drug down everyone else around him (though there may have been a very good reason for that).
                                                            I think that is a little too much falling into the "single cause" trap. All his career we have seen that when Roy is up he is very up and when he is down he is very down. All it would have taken was a downward spiral in his playing that fed his bench demeanor which fed how he was treated which fed his playing spiral which fed his bench demeanor and so forth and so on.

                                                            As a purely hypothetical example (i.e. not saying this ever happened but using it as an example of what I mean), if after a bad game Lance was sniping at teammates and someone said "Shut up and play" he would take that as a challenge. If someone told Roy to "Shut up and play" he'd go into a funk.

                                                            EDITED TO ADD: Heck it could just have taken Roy having a bad game and being told "why did you get into the ASG instead of Lance?" Thud.
                                                            BillS

                                                            A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                                                            Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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