Nirvana's place in the world of music....

[Since86]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

Man this is getting so detailed.

I don't know how you're giving credit to Nirvana for punk. Why not the Ramones? Why not the Sex Pistols? There are so many bands that have influenced punk rock that I can't accept Nirvana as being the influence of the movement.


Gangster rap still isn't around? Uh, Snoop. Dr. Dre. 50 Cent, The Game both are gangsta rappers.

Rap today is a lot closer to what it was in the early-mid 90s than rock today and it's relationship with Nirvana.

[billbradley]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

Man this is getting so detailed.

I don't know how you're giving credit to Nirvana for punk. Why not the Ramones? Why not the Sex Pistols? There are so many bands that have influenced punk rock that I can't accept Nirvana as being the influence of the movement.

Tupac didn't start gangsta rap or rap. Afrika Bambaataa was a pioneer of rap and Ice T for gangster rap. But Tupac is the face. Same with Nirvana.

Gangster rap still isn't around? Uh, Snoop. Dr. Dre. 50 Cent, The Game both are gangsta rappers.

Rap today is a lot closer to what it was in the early-mid 90s than rock today and it's relationship with Nirvana.

I wouldn't say gangster rap is more mainstream that some of these alternative bands I don't listen to. Neither are as mainstream as when Tupac and Cobain were alive. And none of the rap artists listed have the resume that Radiohead has.

But you have not answered of the questions surrounding Cobain and Tupac.
Why was Tupac the voice of a generation?

[jeffg-body]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

In my humble opinion I think when Nirvana came onto the scene it marked the end of the hair band era.

[Since86]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

I said I didn't see so much a problem with labeling Tupac, not that I believed the label. And I've already said why. Tupac's cultural impact is still relevant. Nirvana's is not.

And Radiohead isn't all that popular. Doesn't that show something about the value of their contribution on society as a whole? Start a conversation about Dr. Dre and Radiohead with random people, and you will find that the topic will be dominated by Dr. Dre and not Radiohead, because people don't listen to them. Whether right or wrong, they just aren't as known.

As a band that's been around for 20+ years, doesn't that say something?

[Since86]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

And Nirvana isn't the face of punk music. If any one is the face of modern punk music, it would have to be Green Day.

[billbradley]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

And Radiohead isn't all that popular. Doesn't that show something about the value of their contribution on society as a whole? Start a conversation about Dr. Dre and Radiohead with random people, and you will find that the topic will be dominated by Dr. Dre and not Radiohead, because people don't listen to them. Whether right or wrong, they just aren't as known.

As a band that's been around for 20+ years, doesn't that say something?

Neither is Coltrane among "random people." It doesn't change their contribution to music. From Kanye West to Dave Mathews Band, so many bands express admiration for Radiohead and their major influence on music. You have to understand by now that popularity isn't the only factor. What is popular doesn't always spark change or cultrual influence. There are many other factors.

Tupac's cultural impact is still relevant. Nirvana's is not.

I have seen more stories in the mainstream media in the WEEKS leading up to the 20th anniversary of Nevermind, than Tupac on the 15th anniversary of the DAY Tupac died September 13.

[billbradley]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

And Nirvana isn't the face of punk music. If any one is the face of modern punk music, it would have to be Green Day.

I agree, I meant the face of bringing punk mainstream.

[billbradley]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

But you still need to address this so I can make my point.

I said I didn't see so much a problem with labeling Tupac, not that I believed the label. And I've already said why.

You said it was because Tupac encompassed a large majority of black youth but you didn't answer my question, so I'll ask again. How did you come to the conclusion that "a large majority of black youth" was encompassed by Tupac?

[Constellations]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

I agree, I meant the face of bringing punk mainstream.

Nirvana wasn't punk. They were Grunge. They wanted the punk sound, followed the scene, but came out as Grunge.

[travmil]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

Pearl Jam Ten entered the Billboard Hot 200 at #155 in January 1992, the same week Nirvana Nevermind was the number one album in the country. So, the album lagged behind Nevermind despite being released a full month earlier. Ten peaked at #2 in August 1992, nearly a full year after being released. What does this mean? That Pearl Jam's success didn't come until AFTER Nirvana busted down the door for them. I've gone on record as saying that I actually prefer Alice in Chains. But I also admit that nobody outside of the Pacific Northwest would have ever heard of them if not for Nirvana.

[ilive4sports]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

Nirvana wasn't punk. They were Grunge. They wanted the punk sound, followed the scene, but came out as Grunge.

Grunge is a branch off of Punk. Its heavier, but with the same spirit(?) behind it. And Nirvana opened the door to Punk exploding in the 90s.

[Since86]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

But you still need to address this so I can make my point.



You said it was because Tupac encompassed a large majority of black youth but you didn't answer my question, so I'll ask again. How did you come to the conclusion that "a large majority of black youth" was encompassed by Tupac?

And I've mentioned about how he's had a book of poems released after his death. Long with many other songs etc.

Tupac's message is still around today. The message of grunge isn't.

And once again, I've NEVER said that Tupac is a voice of a generation, only that I could accept that easier than I can Nirvana.

[Since86]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

Grunge is a branch off of Punk. Its heavier, but with the same spirit(?) behind it. And Nirvana opened the door to Punk exploding in the 90s.

After it already exploded during the 1960s and 1980s......

[billbradley]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

And I've mentioned about how he's had a book of poems released after his death. Long with many other songs etc.

So does Cobain, drawings and short stories too.

Tupac's message is still around today. The message of grunge isn't.

And once again, I've NEVER said that Tupac is a voice of a generation, only that I could accept that easier than I can Nirvana.

You said you don't see a problem with Tupac being labeled the voice of a generation because he encompassed a pretty large majority of the black youth.

There are a lot of good artists out there that put out socially conscientious messages, that really aren't the voice of an entire generation. I don't see so much the problem with Tupac, because he encompassed a pretty large majority of the black youth.

So please, answer the question. Can you not find an answer that does not hurt you argument?

How did you come to the conclusion that "a large majority of black youth" was encompassed by Tupac?

[Since86]

Re: Nirvana's place in the world of music....

No, I said

I don't see so much the problem with Tupac, because he encompassed a pretty large majority of the black youth

That is a direct quote.

And just with my observations. Tupac's legacy around the culture is a lot more profound than Nirvana's is.

What legacy, other than music does Nirvana have? Tupac's lifestyle, and then his message was embraced by his fans, and it still is embraced by the black community and beyond. (meaning it crosses over to a large portion of white culture as well)

Nirvana doesn't have any cultural impacts. Or atleast it's not as profound IMHO.

There isn't any concrete answer. I know how Tupac is still receieved and I know how Nirvana is received. IMHO there is a distinct difference between the two.