COVID-19

[Gamble1]

Here is an in depth look at mask wearing in Tennessee comparing mask mandates and overall growth of hospitilzations in counties without a mandate vs ones that do have one. Authors also address consumer spending and behavioral shifts do to virus prevalence and mitigation steps.

https://www.vumc.org/health-policy/sites/default/files/public_files/Vanderbilt%20COVID19%20Report-Oct%2027.pdf

This further supports the effectiveness of mask wearing and hospitilzations although the author points out that no direct link can be made since other mitigation steps are in play.

[Motion Offense]

161,000 cases in the US today. I am hearing more stories of people I know. It has completely blown up here and in Europe. Basically the western world. Blowing up in Mexico and South America too.

At least we aren’t first in cases per population. 250,000 new cases a day would be insane.

[Gamble1]

North Dakota is allowing asymptomatic covid nurses to treat covid patients due to the shortage of nurses.

The glaring issue with this is how do you have these nurses interact with the other nursing staff.

[Gamble1]

As we know, Sweden had the highest deaths per capita in the world early on. Two more countries just passed them, Columbia and Panama. France passed them about a week ago.

Other countries that were doing extremely well are catching up with them quickly. It seems the Swedes got a sniff of the virus and are now holding up pretty well.

We'll see how this fall and winter go.

A lot of Swedens deaths and many countries were due to outbreaks in nursing homes. Once they tighten up that the deaths dropped but many countries are still grappling with keeping covid out of nursing homes. Visitors and staffs drive these infections.

[BlueNGold]

161,000 cases in the US today. I am hearing more stories of people I know. It has completely blown up here and in Europe. Basically the western world. Blowing up in Mexico and South America too.

[BlueNGold]

As we know, Sweden had the highest deaths per capita in the world early on. Two more countries just passed them, Columbia and Panama. France passed them about a week ago.

Other countries that were doing extremely well are catching up with them quickly. It seems the Swedes got a sniff of the virus and are now holding up pretty well.

We'll see how this fall and winter go.

[BlueNGold]

Bball seems to think every US citizen was a communist before Trump. Not sure where he's getting that.

[BlueNGold]

No. Of course there would be SOME people who would refuse. But there would be FAR less if the cult's leader said "Wear a mask". They'd wear the mask. If the cult's leader said "socially distance", they'd socially distance. If the cult's leader said "We need to believe scientists when they warn us about this virus", they'd believe the scientists.

Of course, if the cult's leader said "Drink the Koolaid" they'd do that too.

But, you can't pretend that a leader that has cult-like devotion isn't inspiring his followers by word and deed to ignore the virus. He made not wearing masks a political statement, instead of a patriotic duty and response.

You voted for him, and stayed supportive and voted again. This is what you voted for. You get to own it.

And I would vote for Trump again, on the basis of his policies. I don't care if he's an azz. I also think people are assuming a lot when they think our policies or Trump is why we are doing badly with the virus.

Again, I understand this conflicts with your narrative, but we are a very, very fat nation and our demographics are worst case for this virus. Of course, you will ignore all that because you want to race to your conclusion without thinking.

I got some news for you. We are a more independent people than most around the world. Trump didn't transform his cult. His cult was here thinking what they think before he arrived with many of the same views that he spoke to. Tea Party is a chunk of that, btw.

You probably blame Trump for the Tea Party, don't you?

[Bball]

No. Of course there would be SOME people who would refuse. But there would be FAR less if the cult's leader said "Wear a mask". They'd wear the mask. If the cult's leader said "socially distance", they'd socially distance. If the cult's leader said "We need to believe scientists when they warn us about this virus", they'd believe the scientists.

Of course, if the cult's leader said "Drink the Koolaid" they'd do that too.

But, you can't pretend that a leader that has cult-like devotion isn't inspiring his followers by word and deed to ignore the virus. He made not wearing masks a political statement, instead of a patriotic duty and response.

You voted for him, and stayed supportive and voted again. This is what you voted for. You get to own it.

[BlueNGold]

You are making a lot assumptions. It doesn't matter who is in charge, a lot of people in our society would resist a mask. Also, we are fattest nation in the world (I think) and that is part of our issue.

Then you look at Europe right now. Some of those countries are doing worse.

You are a complete fool if you compare us to Asia. First, they are used to obeying dictators. Second, they weigh like 110lbs. Do you understand the difference or not?

You act like the general public will adhere to rules set by the government in America. Fact is, we don't and never have. You can't suggest guidelines without pretty severe enforcement. People smoke pot and know or should know it's not healthy. It's dangerous to smoke and drive. But they do it anyway. People break every law in the book all the time even though we preach until we're blue in the face for them to stop.

This is alot like this utopia you people are building in Chicago. You've had decades to fix that but your ideas just don't work.

[Bball]

By any metrics you want to look at, this is not good:

https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/2393.htm

51 deaths reported in today's tally.

Over 10% positivity rate on the polluted number, and over 20% on the more telling stat (Indiana keeps both stats on the dashboard which is good... and transparent).

We're seeing why Trump's response has been so bad. On one hand you have just the mixed messaging and playing down of science, and his desire for a herd immunity strategy, or just ignoring the virus entirely, which led to a wasted summer to tamp it down when we had seasonality on our side.

And then there's him holding rallies, during a pandemic, preaching his "liberty" and denial spiel to a group of people who have at least one pre-existing condition in common "believing Donald Trump". There's no way these events didn't spread illness, and almost certainly death, whether by people attending, or attendees spreading it to others in their family and community.

But it still gets one level worse: Doing this in an election year, at election time, caused states and local communities to drawback on taking proper precautions. Everyone was paralyzed by fear of alienating, or inspiring, Trump voters. Sure, a few places did what they thought was needed, regardless of the election. But I can guarantee you counties like mine were, and are, frozen by doing only what they feel would please Trump and therefore, Trump voters (which in this case is their own voters).

And you can't tell me Holcomb wasn't paralyzed by this as well. Everything that happened yesterday, could've happened one week ago, or one month ago. He wanted to wait until after the election, and then give it a week not to be TOO transparent IMO.

But the problem with all these delayed reactions is we're all at a worse place NOW than we would've had to be. We're much closer to shutdowns and more serious restrictions than we had to be. And by being at this point sooner, we're going to have more people sick, and more people dying, in total than would have to be. We KNOW a vaccine is coming. We're not just slowing the spread and flattening the curve to slow down the time for everyone to get this without overwhelming the medical system. We're buying time to get to that vaccine. But Trump's 'plan' (if you could call it that) doesn't recognize any of that.

Trump didn't just argue we need to keep the country open and economy going... He argued we had to do it by ignoring the virus. He wanted no restrictions. No masks. No social distancing. Actually, it wasn't just by ignoring the virus, it was more akin to denying the virus.

So here we are...

[BlueNGold]

Supplements aren't regulated the same way so that makes sense to be more skeptical of them.

Moving forward I expect future vaccines to be heavily made with this new approach. It may not work for certain viruses but this new method basically will change how we vaccinate people on a large scale.

Nanotechnology will freak some people out though in terms of how it works...and even moreso it's potential. It has the possibility for amazing advances in medicine but also there is a potential dark side to it.

Much like the internet, good and bad will most likely come from it. Every advance we have ever seen also have downsides.

[Gamble1]

Just a small comment. Not a vaccine but I have seen loved ones have adverse reactions. A couple were severe. But I will say the worst was with a supplement that appears to be permanent damage. No question I have to have a very good and necessary reason to take any medication and frankly I am wary of supplements. Food? Generally ok with that. So my view is colored by that a bit. Not a big fan of medication ir anything elective. Doesn’t mean I will not take medicine or do a procedure but it has to be near imperative.

Supplements aren't regulated the same way so that makes sense to be more skeptical of them.

Moving forward I expect future vaccines to be heavily made with this new approach. It may not work for certain viruses but this new method basically will change how we vaccinate people on a large scale.

[BlueNGold]

I don't think anyone including me are saying there isn't a risk. I would argue that those risk are relatively small in comparison to the infection.

Secondly it is not just the NIH involved here with vaccine approvals. Its the CDC as well and other agencies. Even people who get vaccinated can self report and stop a trial.

The interesting thing is that you can say you do not blindly trust the medical community and I would say they wouldn't want you to either. That is the point of having the conversations though with them.

At the end of the day it is a personal decision but it still is curious to me the level of people with this hesitation.

Just a small comment. Not a vaccine but I have seen loved ones have adverse reactions. A couple were severe. But I will say the worst was with a supplement that appears to be permanent damage. No question I have to have a very good and necessary reason to take any medication and frankly I am wary of supplements. Food? Generally ok with that. So my view is colored by that a bit. Not a big fan of medication ir anything elective. Doesn’t mean I will not take medicine or do a procedure but it has to be near imperative.

[Gamble1]

I don't think anyone including me are saying there isn't a risk. I would argue that those risk are relatively small in comparison to the infection.

Secondly it is not just the NIH involved here with vaccine approvals. Its the CDC as well and other agencies. Even people who get vaccinated can self report and stop a trial.

The interesting thing is that you can say you do not blindly trust the medical community and I would say they wouldn't want you to either. That is the point of having the conversations though with them.

At the end of the day it is a personal decision but it still is curious to me the level of people with this hesitation.