COVID-19

[BlueNGold]

The virus doesn't really have a mind of its own. The longer it's with us, the more data we gather and can better understand what is happening. Maybe some things happen in the middle of everything that we need some experience with, or hindsight, to understand better, but it'll be perfectly understandable at some point. Overall, it's doing exactly what we were told to expect if and ultimately once we lost containment.

Mostly, it's on us, the citizens to better control what the virus does. We generally know if we do X or we do Y what that means the virus will do.

If we do X or we do Y, no we don't know what the virus will do.

Look at New Mexico. They have statewide travel restrictions and have seen virus cases rise 62% over the last 2 weeks. South Dakota doesn't have such restrictions and it's dropped 33% over the last 2 weeks. Is the proper conclusion to draw that there should be no restrictions?

Perhaps in the lab or in a very controlled test we can "prove" things but in the real world it's all over the place.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...rus-in-the-u-s

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...tates-n1236157

[BlueNGold]

BTW, if you look at the two links above you can compare the restrictions in the various states with the incidence of cases. There is no correlation. If you exclude New York where it all started, there still isn't a correlation.

One might look at North Dakota and conclude their recent mask mandate two weeks ago has led to their 16% drop....until they look at South Dakota which doesn't have a mask mandate and their number of cases dropped 33%.

One might look at the west coast and their travel restrictions and conclude they are doing better than most of the country. That's accurate. But states like Utah, West Virginia, Oklahoma, Kentucky and Wyoming are doing as well or pretty close to it. But there may be a demographic/health difference where the people on the west coast may not be as vulnerable.

Then you look at Germany which is god-like in the virus community. They are doing far worse than Sweden over the last month.

[Bball]

No, those things can be explained. The answer is in the data. The data just needs to be gathered and looked at. We have a good idea how the virus works. We have less of an idea how people work. The virus isn't just laughing at us and doing what it wants, when it wants. If cases go down, there's a reason. If cases go up, there's a reason. It might not be immediately obvious to an outside observer without all of the data, or to someone trying to draw conclusions from incomplete data.

Your answers could be as simple as more testing or less testing skewing the numbers. Or WHO is getting tested and when, for whatever reasons. It could be a culture of a state or region that was not taking the virus seriously, suddenly being forced to by restrictions and reality that is telling them it's time to take this seriously. It's not just whether they are wearing their masks or not... but whether they are taking social distancing seriously... or not. Has fatigue set in somewhere?

Even looking at the calendar for events being held... or the end of events... Or the weather during the periods could be telling. Did a warm spell move people outdoors? Did a wet or unseasonably cold spell moving people indoors?

The virus will do what a virus does, and that is look for hosts. If it's contagious enough, and we are willing to give it hosts, then we know, at least generally what will happen. We might not be as apt to know what variables people will put into play and what environmental or other factors will come into play with that.

The data will tell us. What the data won't ever say is "Might as well ignore the virus. Nothing we do can slow it or stop it"

[BlueNGold]

Not saying it is impossible to determine how to deal with the virus or what helps contain it. I question if the so-called experts are correct because the data does not seem to back up their claims if what they suggest is actually that effective at containing it. That is, to some degree they may be right but they are overstating how effective things like masks are in a confined space. That’s not to say they don’t help some. The point is that they make claims without noting the limited protection that masks really are.

[Bball]

"so-called experts"... SMH...

[BlueNGold]

"so-called experts"... SMH...

The same "experts" told us not to wear masks early on, projected a total of 60K deaths and took 6 months to acknowledge the virus was aerosolized (when a tiny amount of common sense made that obvious).

These are the same "experts" who have had decades to cure the common cold, cancer, heart disease and nearly every disease known to man but people keep dying of this stuff.

Fact is, people get into science and, because that's their trade and it's supposedly some magical ability or knowledge, think they're smarter than every other person on the planet. Well, they're not.

True story. I took an advanced organic chemistry course at IUPUI some time ago. The intent was to get into patent law. Out of a couple hundred up to 300 people in the class, I ranked 2nd. They ain't that 'mart.

[Bball]

The same "experts" told us not to wear masks early on, projected a total of 60K deaths and took 6 months to acknowledge the virus was aerosolized (when a tiny amount of common sense made that obvious).

These are the same "experts" who have had decades to cure the common cold, cancer, heart disease and nearly every disease known to man but people keep dying of this stuff.

Fact is, people get into science and, because that's their trade and it's supposedly some magical ability or knowledge, think they're smarter than every other person on the planet. Well, they're not.

True story. I took an advanced organic chemistry course at IUPUI some time ago. The intent was to get into patent law. Out of a couple hundred up to 300 people in the class, I ranked 2nd. They ain't that 'mart.

"Experts..."
Vs
Dunning Kruger...
The product of limited knowledge and a diet of propaganda.

[BlueNGold]

"Experts" in Germany have now seen 4 straight days of the most deaths since the pandemic began. They are averaging about 400 deaths a day. As a result, they continue to climb spots (2 more in the last few days) in the deaths per capita ranking. Keep in mind they are perfect. They not only have done everything right vs this virus, they hate Donald Trump.

Sweden, meanwhile has been averaging about 30 a day for about a month. They are about 1/8 of the size of Germany so adjusted they are dying at about a 60% rate compared to Germany. Not as good as they were doing awhile ago.

France seems worse off. Hovering around 500-600 a day in deaths.

Poland is also at around 500-600 deaths a day.

[BlueNGold]

"Experts..."
Vs
Dunning Kruger...
The product of limited knowledge and a diet of propaganda.

I am just serving up facts. Admittedly my lab partner in that class was a chemist by trade so the lab portion of my grade didn't hurt me any...

[vapacersfan]

Cancer and other diseases are not the same as the common cold (flu shot?).....

Fact is, people get into science and, because that's their trade and it's supposedly some magical ability or knowledge, think they're smarter than every other person on the planet. Well, they're not.

This thread has proved scientists are not the only ones....

[BlueNGold]

Cancer and other diseases are not the same as the common cold (flu shot?).....



This thread has proved scientists are not the only ones....

OK, all I am asking is that people think for themselves rather than blindly follow the lab coats around when it come to this virus. Look around the US and you have very different laws and I don’t think they have resulted in much difference even though the “experts”make claims they are so certain of how to deal with this virus and that it would make a huevdifference.

[vapacersfan]

True story. I took an advanced organic chemistry course at IUPUI some time ago. The intent was to get into patent law. Out of a couple hundred up to 300 people in the class, I ranked 2nd. They ain't that 'mart.

Also a true story. I took a business law class my sophomore year of college. I was ranked in the top 3% (only 65 students but whatever - why let facts get in the way of a good story)

I totally plan on auditioning for a job in the supreme court next week

[BlueNGold]

Also a true story. I took a business law class my sophomore year of college. I was ranked in the top 3% (only 65 students but whatever - why let facts get in the way of a good story)

I totally plan on auditioning for a job in the supreme court next week

Good luck with that. Trump wouldn't nominate a liberal so you might want to wait until January 21st.

With that said, I bet you got the math wrong. Probably bottom 3%...

[vapacersfan]

Wait...are you admitting he lost the election?

I’m afraid you haven’t got the latest set of talking points!

[vapacersfan]

AFP News Agency

@AFP
?
Nov 26, 2020

Replying to @AFP
Take a vaccine developed in haste? Never again, says Meissa Chebbi, who, like hundreds of other Swedes suffered debilitating narcolepsy after a mass vaccination campaign against the 2009-2010 swine flu pandemic. The experience has shaken confidence http://u.afp.com/3FrU

AFP News Agency

@AFP
VIDEO:

Take a vaccine developed in haste? Never again, says Meissa Chebbi, who like hundreds of other Swedes suffered debilitating narcolepsy after a vaccination campaign against the 2009-10 swine flu pandemic. The experience has shaken confidence in future Covid-19 vaccines

5:50 PM ? Nov 26, 2020