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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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Indianapolis Star

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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This should be interesting.... (Channel 6 to air Larry Bird "State of the Pacers" interview before NBA Countdown tomorrow)

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  • Re: This should be interesting.... (Channel 6 to air Larry Bird "State of the Pacers" interview before NBA Countdown tomorrow)

    Originally posted by Since86 View Post
    The Pacers should be expected to deal with roster changes, shame on them if they can't. But at the same time, Bird needs to have a feeling for what his team can and cannnot overcome. If a GM is going to tinker, then he gets the blame when the tinkering is followed by lower play. This isn't a zero sum game where one party gets all the blame, and the other is absolved of any. Everyone deserves blame. And that's what Nunt had been saying. "Win as a team, lose as a team."

    Just a thought, but this is where Bird stepping away last year could have a negative effect. One would think that he would know everything about these guys considering that he brought all of them in and watched them grow. But that being said, he did miss the most important season that they had together when they went all the way to Game 7 of the ECF's. He wasn't here to see all of the comradery and locker room interactions as we battled through that intense postseason, so it's possible that he didn't fully appreciate the role of Granger's locker room presence if in fact Granger was a key presence in last year's playoff run.

    Comment


    • Re: This should be interesting.... (Channel 6 to air Larry Bird "State of the Pacers" interview before NBA Countdown tomorrow)

      Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
      Bird's not an idiot and understood all of this. He had to have known that guys would be upset to see Granger go. But I think he gambled on three things: 1) After playing last year without Granger and going on the deep playoff run, the team would be mature enough to completely survive without him, 2) Turner would be so good that it would more than make up for any intangibles that DG brought, and 3) Granger was a health risk.
      The only concern I have is that stating it this way continues to make it look like the effect of Granger leaving was to make everybody weepy and sad and unable to do their jobs. I don't know of anyone saying that, including the team or coaching staff. It would be much more difficult to understand the extent to which the other players depended on Danny to be an immediate sounding board if/when problems come up and the guy who mediated personality disputes. I continue to say this has zero to do with "maturity" or whatever - it has to do with the way things work and yanking that resource away.

      In Bird's defense, that layer is not the easiest thing to see from Bird's position. It probably wasn't something he personally as a player ever needed or did because he wasn't that kind of person to share problems or go look for help. That means, however, it would not have been something he would have thought to ask the coaches.
      BillS

      A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
      Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

      Comment


      • Re: This should be interesting.... (Channel 6 to air Larry Bird "State of the Pacers" interview before NBA Countdown tomorrow)

        Originally posted by BillS View Post

        In Bird's defense, that layer is not the easiest thing to see from Bird's position. It probably wasn't something he personally as a player ever needed or did because he wasn't that kind of person to share problems or go look for help. That means, however, it would not have been something he would have thought to ask the coaches.
        Had Bird the player been upset by a trade, he would have had his say (or not), then doubled his efforts on the court and never looked back. He certainly wouldn't have sulked for two months.

        So, I agree, this could have been a blindspot in his decision making behind trading Granger.

        Comment


        • Re: This should be interesting.... (Channel 6 to air Larry Bird "State of the Pacers" interview before NBA Countdown tomorrow)

          Originally posted by Since86 View Post
          Danny's role was giving young guys guidance. I know this, from comments made my the players on the roster and watching them interact on the bench. Sure, I think there are other players that have a similiar role, like West, but Danny was really the only one that plays a wing position. The game is just different for big men and wings. They see the game differently, they want to play differently. You need multiple voices coming from multiple angles. (But all pulling in the same direction)

          Evan doesn't have any room to stand to preach to his teammates about much. Paul/Lance are the same experience level as him, and have been through more wars than Evan, in much larger roles. Danny's trade not only had an impact on who is on the floor, and the roles they're expected to play, but also what's being said the in lockerroom. It had to have some level of impact on the team.

          When you start messing around with chemistry on a team, you're going to have issues. How deep they are, if they can be overcome, etc are all valid questions, but I think it's impossible to just shrug them off and say there isn't, or shouldn't, be any impact.
          So yeah never said Turner could be any veteran presence, but I don't think he will be much of a distraction. On a sidenote problems with started with this team before Danny left, if those problems were with egos why did we not she his veteran presence play a role then? Was he working on addressing it, or does everyone think the ego problems started once he left, as well as the lack of playing team ball?

          I'm not attacking anyone by the way, but your responses are making me think and bringing up other questions.
          Why so SERIOUS

          Comment


          • Re: This should be interesting.... (Channel 6 to air Larry Bird "State of the Pacers" interview before NBA Countdown tomorrow)

            Originally posted by BillS View Post
            The only concern I have is that stating it this way continues to make it look like the effect of Granger leaving was to make everybody weepy and sad and unable to do their jobs. I don't know of anyone saying that, including the team or coaching staff. It would be much more difficult to understand the extent to which the other players depended on Danny to be an immediate sounding board if/when problems come up and the guy who mediated personality disputes. I continue to say this has zero to do with "maturity" or whatever - it has to do with the way things work and yanking that resource away.

            In Bird's defense, that layer is not the easiest thing to see from Bird's position. It probably wasn't something he personally as a player ever needed or did because he wasn't that kind of person to share problems or go look for help. That means, however, it would not have been something he would have thought to ask the coaches.
            Originally posted by A-Train View Post
            Had Bird the player been upset by a trade, he would have had his say (or not), then doubled his efforts on the court and never looked back. He certainly wouldn't have sulked for two months.

            So, I agree, this could have been a blindspot in his decision making behind trading Granger.
            In Bird's defense he is old school and maybe he expects players to be mentally stronger than what this group is currently showing, if you listen to his press conferences this is kind of what I pick up, I think he feels they are soft, and can not deal with adversity. Maybe it was not a blindspot, maybe his blindspot was not seeing how mentally weak this team was.
            Why so SERIOUS

            Comment


            • Re: This should be interesting.... (Channel 6 to air Larry Bird "State of the Pacers" interview before NBA Countdown tomorrow)

              Originally posted by A-Train View Post
              Had Bird the player been upset by a trade, he would have had his say (or not), then doubled his efforts on the court and never looked back. He certainly wouldn't have sulked for two months.

              So, I agree, this could have been a blindspot in his decision making behind trading Granger.


              Maybe I should give up, but this isn't about sulking.

              Let me try again with another analogy.

              You repair appliances, and one particular brand requires that you have to get in a particularly awkward spot. Over the years, you figure out that the best way to do this is to use a wrench with a second unusually shaped wrench to brace it. You don't use that second wrench for anything else but this appliance.

              One day, your boss replaces your old wrench set with a brand new set that no longer has that unusual wrench in it.

              Until you figure out a new way of doing things, you are going to have problems fixing that particular brand of appliance. It WON'T be because you are pissed at your boss, or because you are an immature child who can't handle having your wrenches exchanged, or because you don't know how to repair appliances. It will be because your boss didn't know how you use your tools and he took one away that looked unimportant.

              In this case, Granger is that tool that looks superfluous. The members of the team had learned to use him to facilitate how they integrate their strong personalities. When he was taken away, they weren't able to do that easily - not because they were pissed, or because they were immature, or because they didn't know how to play basketball, but because the way they had worked out to do it well was no longer there.

              I fail to understand how anyone who has ever worked in a team of people in a high-stress situation would fail to understand that you come up with tools to deal with one another's quirks, annoyances, irritations, and sometimes almost incompatible ways of doing business. If those tools go away, you have to figure out how to replace them, and that takes time. Often those tools are people, and when those people leave the team the hole is a lot bigger than just their direct contributions.
              BillS

              A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
              Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

              Comment


              • Re: This should be interesting.... (Channel 6 to air Larry Bird "State of the Pacers" interview before NBA Countdown tomorrow)

                Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                You're right. You saying people calling it the #1 reason, me pointing out that no one has, you agreeing that no one has but saying you don't care that you think they mean it so you'll argue it that way, is me ignoring the facts. I'm glad you cleared that up.

                Ignorance truly is bliss. Enjoy the blinders.


                BTW: I believe that's the difference between before Granger and after Granger. Before the Granger trade..they were still playing like a team..but they weren't winning AS much because their shooting had dropped off. Still, if they had continued playing at that level..they'd still be a 1 seed. After Danny..epic collapse.

                ---------------------------

                He royally ****ed up the chemistry of a championship team. How many extremely talented teams have gone down in flames because they had poor chemistry? The Pacers aren't extremely talented..they couldn't afford that screw up. Bird got greedy..and got nervous that we might lose Lance.

                Everyone wants to point fingers at the players and now Frank...but the problem is obvious. And unfortunately, we can't go back in time. It's up to the players to get their mind right and turn the season around. Of course the expectation is that no matter what, the players will act professionally and get the job done. But that's not the reality and that's not how teams work..and Bird should have known better.

                ------------------------------------

                THESE are the two people that the board is blaming. When it's obvious that the loss of Granger put this team into a tale spin. People are discussing out of control egos when I'm simply saying that Bird made a relatively large mistake. He shouldn't lose his job for it, but Vogel and Paul don't deserve to be scapegoats either.

                --------------------------------

                I think Larry made a huge error. And I think it started this collapse, and now they don't know what to do. I don't really know if Bynum and Turner are an issue, but I doubt they did more destruction than losing Danny. And I'm sure there are more issues, but I think that's what the biggest issue is.

                Comment


                • Re: This should be interesting.... (Channel 6 to air Larry Bird "State of the Pacers" interview before NBA Countdown tomorrow)

                  Originally posted by PacersPride View Post
                  Please enlighten me. Is it really true ignorance is bliss.
                  I already did. Guess not scolling down to the very next post is also bliss.
                  Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                  Comment


                  • Re: This should be interesting.... (Channel 6 to air Larry Bird "State of the Pacers" interview before NBA Countdown tomorrow)

                    Originally posted by A-Train View Post
                    Had Bird the player been upset by a trade, he would have had his say (or not), then doubled his efforts on the court and never looked back. He certainly wouldn't have sulked for two months.

                    So, I agree, this could have been a blindspot in his decision making behind trading Granger.
                    I think you missed the point of his post. Because again you're making it out as if the only effect the trade could have on the locker room is that it made guys weepy and sad, which is exactly what he's saying is not what anyone believes is why Granger's trade has such a large affect on the locker room. Think of it this way:

                    Say you work with a guy who you have a great deal of respect for, who has leadership qualities but he isn't management. Someone that keeps everyone on the same page and focused on the goals management set forth for the staff. He keeps guys on the same page. Then he leaves the company. He's replaced by a guy the same age as you but not quite as experienced, and a guy who should already have been fired. When these guys come in and don't wow anybody and there's a power vacuum in the office are we really only supposed to believe that the impact of his loss is strictly emotional, and that everyone suddenly not being as together as before is just a product of whiny, soft employees not being able to handle seeing a good friend depart? Or is there a chance that the his removal created some confusion about the roles within the office and a loss of communication between departments create breakdowns in efficiency? I think, as Bills was saying, it's not about the players being "sad" about Danny being traded, but the transition itself shakes the day-to-day process up and changes "in house" roles so dramatically that the guys are having a tough time adjusting to a void in leadership, because they don't know either who's supposed to step into that role or the person who was thrust into that role wasn't prepared to handle it.

                    Comment


                    • Re: This should be interesting.... (Channel 6 to air Larry Bird "State of the Pacers" interview before NBA Countdown tomorrow)

                      Originally posted by sam kaiserblade View Post
                      I'm glad Granger is gone after his antics in the heat series a few years back. Getting in Lebron's and Wade's face, drawing techs, talking trash. Very weird stuff that a "leader" shouldnt be doing.
                      It was following those antics that Lebron went on a scoring rampage. Not the desired effect from the Pacers standpoint.

                      Comment


                      • Re: This should be interesting.... (Channel 6 to air Larry Bird "State of the Pacers" interview before NBA Countdown tomorrow)

                        Originally posted by Nuntius View Post

                        That's not the cold hard truth, my friend.

                        Take a look at what the numbers say:

                        Indiana Pacers without Granger at the beginning of the season: 20-5

                        Indiana Pacers with Granger: 21-8

                        Indiana Pacers after the trade: 14-13

                        That's the cold hard truth!
                        Someone should look up the Heat's record prior to and after the Granger trade. My gut feeling is that their record is worse after the trade as well. That Granger guy must have had a larger impact than we've ever imagined, if trading him affected the records of two teams.

                        Comment


                        • Re: This should be interesting.... (Channel 6 to air Larry Bird "State of the Pacers" interview before NBA Countdown tomorrow)

                          Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                          Do me a favor, and quote where some one has actually said the highlighted. When you start looking, and don't see it, it will start making a little sense.
                          Ask and you shall receive.

                          Originally posted by Peck View Post
                          I'm not even bothering with a review of the game or grades, this team is broken right now and any amount of teeth gnashing or wrist wringing from me won't make a difference. I'll just say this, while I still believe that trade was the deathknell of this team I still hold out hope that we keep LaVoy Allen and I truly hope that Frank starts using him.

                          This season can't get over fast enough.

                          http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...s-No-Mas/page2
                          Doesn't take a mind reader to conclude several believe the DG Trade sealed the pacers fate this season. If you cant put 2 and 2 together then no matter how many posts I find on this subject its not going to do either one of us any bit of good.


                          Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                          Translation: I don't care if people have said that they don't think it's the #1 reason, I'm going to continue building this strawman.

                          Knock yourself out there bud. I tried.
                          Keep on keeping on believing the **** you are shoveling.
                          Last edited by PacersPride; 04-16-2014, 05:07 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Re: This should be interesting.... (Channel 6 to air Larry Bird "State of the Pacers" interview before NBA Countdown tomorrow)

                            Originally posted by PacersPride View Post
                            Doesn't take a mind reader to conclude several believe the DG Trade sealed the pacers fate this season. If you cant put 2 and 2 together then no matter how many posts I find on this subject its not going to do either one of us any bit of good.
                            And you're confusing the final straw with the root cause. Peck has said over and over that the Danny trade didn't start the problem but that it made it impossible to fix it.

                            A "death knell" doesn't kill people. It just signals that people have irrevocably (except in zombie and vampire movies) died.
                            BillS

                            A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                            Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                            Comment


                            • Re: This should be interesting.... (Channel 6 to air Larry Bird "State of the Pacers" interview before NBA Countdown tomorrow)

                              Originally posted by BillS View Post
                              And you're confusing the final straw with the root cause. Peck has said over and over that the Danny trade didn't start the problem but that it made it impossible to fix it.

                              A "death knell" doesn't kill people. It just signals that people have irrevocably (except in zombie and vampire movies) died.
                              Easy to do when the very same horse is beaten over and over again by numerous posters. I am fully aware this team has been slumping... and there are several valid reasons,, but time and time again the reason identified the most is the DG trade.

                              Comment


                              • Re: This should be interesting.... (Channel 6 to air Larry Bird "State of the Pacers" interview before NBA Countdown tomorrow)

                                True Story! After reading this thread, the UN is in contact with Danny Granger to immediately fly to Jerusalem to engage in Mid-east peace talks. Due primarily to his abilities displayed in the Indiana Pacers locker room mediating disagreements and holding together a fractured team for so long.

                                Comment

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