Thunder/Pacers discussed Harden deal

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  • billbradley

    Re: Thunder/Pacers discussed Harden deal

    Originally posted by vnzla81
    Signing a player that was drafted five years ago and has not done anything since been drafted to a long term deal is a bad decision, trading a good backup PG with value for a career backup center and giving that player a long term deal is a bad decision.
    Are you saying risks aren't bad decisions? There is no way signing Green and Ian aren't risks. You're betting they become better players, that's why you sign them.

    Comment

    • vnzla81
      Member
      • Jul 2008
      • 68174

      Re: Thunder/Pacers discussed Harden deal

      Originally posted by billbradley
      Was actually using that for the Gasol trade. The Cavs took a risk keeping LBJ. It would of been a risk to trade him to. That's why this risk talk is so stupid.
      So the Pacers took a risk by doing nothing? sorry but I don't buy it.
      @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

      Comment

      • aamcguy
        Member
        • Mar 2012
        • 4134

        Re: Thunder/Pacers discussed Harden deal

        Originally posted by vnzla81
        Signing a player that was drafted five years ago and has not done anything since been drafted to a long term deal is a bad decision, trading a good backup PG with value for a career backup center and giving that player a long term deal is a bad decision.
        Unless the career backup center comes in and does a fine job of protecting the rim when the starter is sitting out, making sure that our defense doesn't lag. Sure, there were times a guy like Amundson provides more than Ian has done this year. But when Lou was in there, there was nobody out there altering shots when he can't get to the block. Ian makes sure that when they get past the first line of defense they still have a big guy to try to shoot around.

        If you look at the moves we made individually I think you are right vnzla. Collison + Jones for Mahinmi doesn't make very much sense because we had the capspace to sign Mahinmi outright. But when you look at all of the moves together it makes sense. They wanted Jones out so they could give basically the same contract to Green. They wanted Ian, but Dallas didn't particularly want Jones. But they did want Collison, so Dallas agreed to take Jones if they got Collison as well. The loss of Collison might hurt this year until we let him leave this offseason, but they knew they would be able to acquire Augustin.

        You can disagree that Ian and Green weren't the best offseason targets, but they are the right age for our team. And Green as a third wing doesn't seem so bad if you always have one of George or Granger out there.
        Time for a new sig.

        Comment

        • billbradley

          Re: Thunder/Pacers discussed Harden deal

          Originally posted by vnzla81
          So the Pacers took a risk by doing nothing? sorry but I don't buy it.
          Doing nothing when? We took a risk signing about 30 million dollars worth of new contracts.

          Comment

          • aamcguy
            Member
            • Mar 2012
            • 4134

            Re: Thunder/Pacers discussed Harden deal

            Originally posted by billbradley
            Are you saying risks aren't bad decisions? There is no way signing Green and Ian aren't risks. You're betting they become better players, that's why you sign them.
            I want to thank this a million times.

            Those who are saying the Pacers need to take more risks don't want them to take more risks; they want them to sign the players they think are better. It's a risk up until the point where it doesn't seem to be working. At that point, it is a bad decision. Which is what all of the Pacers moves have been deemed to be.
            Time for a new sig.

            Comment

            • Nuntius
              Member
              • Jan 2012
              • 35969

              Re: Thunder/Pacers discussed Harden deal

              Originally posted by Dece
              Of course this was a risk. It's not like it was a forgone conclusion they were all going to sign with the Heat.
              Given the fact that now we know that both LeBron and Bosh were in contact and decided to sign together with the Heat when they were still in Cleveland and Toronto, I say that it was pretty much was a forgone conclusion that they were going to sign there. At least for the players involved.

              Originally posted by Dece
              So they didn't take a risk on bringing in Tyson fresh off injury or the nearly mummified Jason Kidd in hopes he could still hoop at 90 years old? Wrong again. I remember LOTS of people saying Jason didn't have any game yet and that Tyson was overpaid.
              Jason Kidd went there at 2007-2008 season. What are you talking about?

              Originally posted by Dece
              It wasn't risky to trade for Nash and Dwight?
              No, it really wasn't. They gave 4 picks to the Suns to get Nash. They gave Andrew Bynum (who has yet to play a game in a non-Laker uniform), Josh McRoberts and Christian Eyenga to get Dwight Howard, Chris Duhon and Earl Clark. I mean, wow.

              They certainly risked and parted with so many great assets to get 2 possible HOFers /green

              I don't know how people can think that any team other than the Lakers would be able to do those deals.

              Originally posted by Dece
              they risked their fan base
              And now you're talking. The Celtics have a loyal fan base. They knew that they could risk beig bad and still have fans attending their games. Not all teams are lucky like that. Not all teams are supported in their own city..
              Originally posted by IrishPacer
              Empty vessels make the most noise.

              Comment

              • vnzla81
                Member
                • Jul 2008
                • 68174

                Re: Thunder/Pacers discussed Harden deal

                Originally posted by billbradley
                Are you saying risks aren't bad decisions? There is no way signing Green and Ian aren't risks. You're betting they become better players, that's why you sign them.
                Everybody and their mom knew that neither Green or Ian have proven to be good players with years in the NBA is not like they were some rookies or anything.
                @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                Comment

                • vnzla81
                  Member
                  • Jul 2008
                  • 68174

                  Re: Thunder/Pacers discussed Harden deal

                  Originally posted by billbradley
                  Doing nothing when? We took a risk signing about 30 million dollars worth of new contracts.
                  Lol
                  @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                  Comment

                  • billbradley

                    Re: Thunder/Pacers discussed Harden deal

                    Originally posted by vnzla81
                    Everybody and their mom knew that neither Green or Ian have proven to be good players with years in the NBA is not like they were some rookies or anything.
                    Ha, so you're telling me because more people knew that these players weren't good, it was less of a risk for the Pacers to sign these players to get better?

                    I don't agree with your player evaluation, but your argument makes zero since. In your opinion, the players signed were riskier moves because "everyone and their mom" knew they weren't good players.

                    I remember people and their mothers saying the same thing about the Gasol trade, you can't have it both ways.

                    Comment

                    • Dece
                      5Y $150 for Myles
                      • Oct 2007
                      • 3867

                      Re: Thunder/Pacers discussed Harden deal

                      Originally posted by Nuntius
                      Given the fact that now we know that both LeBron and Bosh were in contact and decided to sign together with the Heat when they were still in Cleveland and Toronto, I say that it was pretty much was a forgone conclusion that they were going to sign there. At least for the players involved.

                      I guess someone should have told New York, New Jersey, Chicago, and Houston that. If this isn't captain hindsight I don't know what is. We had THE DECISION hour long special, but it was 100% for sure always going to happen.

                      Comment

                      • Dece
                        5Y $150 for Myles
                        • Oct 2007
                        • 3867

                        Re: Thunder/Pacers discussed Harden deal

                        Originally posted by billbradley
                        Ha, so you're telling me because more people knew that these players weren't good, it was less of a risk for the Pacers to sign these players to get better?

                        I don't agree with your player evaluation, but your argument makes zero since. In your opinion, the players signed were riskier moves because "everyone and their mom" knew they weren't good players.

                        I remember people and their mothers saying the same thing about the Gasol trade, you can't have it both ways.
                        Risk has to have upside. There is no upside to bringing in Ian. No one has ever seen him play and said, "you know, I really think that kid is going to be an amazing player one day..." I can get behind someone possibly saying that about Green, so I'll give you that one, but Ian? C'mon.

                        Comment

                        • BillS
                          Angry Old Poster
                          • Mar 2004
                          • 21654

                          Re: Thunder/Pacers discussed Harden deal

                          Originally posted by Dece
                          Risk has to have upside. There is no upside to bringing in Ian. No one has ever seen him play and said, "you know, I really think that kid is going to be an amazing player one day..." I can get behind someone possibly saying that about Green, so I'll give you that one, but Ian? C'mon.
                          Why does upside have to be that the player will be "amazing"? Upside just has to be that the player will be better for you than what you gave up to get him. Otherweise, you are saying the only "risk" is when you trade for a star - benches are by that definition never risky, just ... what? Known in advance to be a good or bad decision, and front offices stubbornly make bad decisions anyway?
                          BillS

                          A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                          Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                          Comment

                          • billbradley

                            Re: Thunder/Pacers discussed Harden deal

                            Originally posted by Dece
                            Risk has to have upside. There is no upside to bringing in Ian. No one has ever seen him play and said, "you know, I really think that kid is going to be an amazing player one day..." I can get behind someone possibly saying that about Green, so I'll give you that one, but Ian? C'mon.
                            The upside is having a solid backup center. How many teams can say they have two competent 5s?

                            Comment

                            • Nuntius
                              Member
                              • Jan 2012
                              • 35969

                              Re: Thunder/Pacers discussed Harden deal

                              Originally posted by vnzla81
                              trading a good backup PG
                              Is vnzla really calling DC a good anything? Mother of god, I have to frame this somewhere
                              Originally posted by IrishPacer
                              Empty vessels make the most noise.

                              Comment

                              • aamcguy
                                Member
                                • Mar 2012
                                • 4134

                                Re: Thunder/Pacers discussed Harden deal

                                Originally posted by Dece
                                Risk has to have upside. There is no upside to bringing in Ian. No one has ever seen him play and said, "you know, I really think that kid is going to be an amazing player one day..." I can get behind someone possibly saying that about Green, so I'll give you that one, but Ian? C'mon.
                                That's an opinion, not fact. He did have upside. The upside was that he would improve our defense in the second unit and give us a reliable PnR partner for our backup PG. And...he has done that so far. He has his flaws, but he has a lot of positives. Just because you don't agree his positives aren't positive enough doesn't mean they don't exist.
                                Time for a new sig.

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