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NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...

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  • #31
    Re: NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...

    Originally posted by docpaul View Post
    Huh, have you watched the team in the past couple of years? Is the final product not improving enough for you?

    Am I in some kind of bizzaro world here?
    Larry is considered a genius for cleaning up the mess that either DW alone or he and DW created (depending on what you want to believe). So I guess I need someone smarter than me to explain the logic in reuniting the two. And to explain why you also need Pritchard? Wasn't the team crying poverty just a year ago? And you need three guys capable of running a team working together to do what? Re-sign your own RFAs? Complete BS!

    And yes I've watched the team and it's a nice collection of decent talent that will be rebuilding in 3 years after they max out as maybe conference finalists - that's if they keep getting lucky with injuries - Howard, Bosh, Rose. They are a very nice collegant style team. That doesn't win titles in the NBA. I'd be much happier with a worse record, but a team that I believe was building to something bigger than just making the playoffs. I don't need instant gratification - I just need to believe that everyone associated with the team is dieing to win a title. I've never felt that way with the Pacers. And it doesn't help that before free agency begins I'm told not to expect a big time FA. But I'll be damned if we can't hire another front office guy!

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...

      Also, no matter who is in the front office, the group should always get the blame for mistakes. What is the point in trying to dissect who did what and who called who?

      Save yourself the headache. If they're part of the front office, they should get their share of credit for the good decisions and blame for the bad ones.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...

        I like it. Donnie Walsh is as savvy as they come.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...

          I tend to wonder if this means Larry's days are numbered. He brings in Pritchard and maybe Walsh to ease the transition for the Simons. Hmmm.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...

            Originally posted by rm1369 View Post
            But I'll be damned if we can't hire another front office guy!
            Hicks had a series of tweets a couple days ago from a NBA writer explaining how NBA front offices work. The have a decision maker that has final say, and leads the FO team in vision. Then they work as a team to accomplish that vision, taking certain roles/responsibilities.

            Most teams have around 3 guys in front office (titles are different for teams, but for example - GM, assistant GM, and director of player personnel - unless you follow a team close you normally don't hear about the 3rd guy)

            Once we had - DW/Bird/Morway
            Last year we had - Bird/Morway/Pritchard
            This year - Bird/Pritchard/DW

            Not like we are out of the norm when it comes to people in the front office.
            "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...

              I'm glad he's back. It sounds more and more likely that the Pacers will make a splash in free agency. Walsh did a pretty good job in New York, before and after the Melo trade. Walsh has that "big market" feel and could have been brought in to recruit FA; It's been said that it wasn't because no superstar wanted to play in Indiana it was because the Pacers didn't want them.

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              • #37
                Re: NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...

                Originally posted by rm1369 View Post
                Larry is considered a genius for cleaning up the mess that either DW alone or he and DW created (depending on what you want to believe). So I guess I need someone smarter than me to explain the logic in reuniting the two. And to explain why you also need Pritchard? Wasn't the team crying poverty just a year ago? And you need three guys capable of running a team working together to do what? Re-sign your own RFAs? Complete BS!

                And yes I've watched the team and it's a nice collection of decent talent that will be rebuilding in 3 years after they max out as maybe conference finalists - that's if they keep getting lucky with injuries - Howard, Bosh, Rose. They are a very nice collegant style team. That doesn't win titles in the NBA. I'd be much happier with a worse record, but a team that I believe was building to something bigger than just making the playoffs. I don't need instant gratification - I just need to believe that everyone associated with the team is dieing to win a title. I've never felt that way with the Pacers. And it doesn't help that before free agency begins I'm told not to expect a big time FA. But I'll be damned if we can't hire another front office guy!
                For some reason, this argument reminds me of how my wife is around food.

                Wife: "man, this sandwich is good... what is it?"
                Me: "I think it's chicken salad."
                Wife: "what are the ingredients?"
                Me: "Hmm, probably chicken, celery, mayo?"
                Wife: "yuck, mayo... I can't stand mayo."
                Me: "Yeah, I know that. Why did you stop eating the sandwich?"
                Wife: "I hate mayo."

                I guess I never understand why some are so concerned with the ingredients, and why they can't simply enjoy the sandwich? It either tastes good, or it doesn't. I'm certainly not one to get in the way of the chefs... because I'm not a chef myself.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...

                  Originally posted by tadscout View Post
                  Where have you been the last 1-2 years? LB did exactly what he said he would do in his three year plan, and not many if any GMs could have done it as well, sticking to the plan.

                  The RFA thing is only common sense... Only way you can actually sign a RFA is to overpay, a luxury a small market team can't do. Also Simon said in an interview he would allow LB to go after a RFA if it was a right player (and those normally are players that would be matched by their own team no matter what!). So pretty much only way we can get a RFA and not overpay for their talent is if it is a max level player and their team can't match b/c of going over the luxury tax. -- Only common sense.
                  I'm underwhelmed by the team. The record is nice, but I don't believe this team goes anywhere. Partly because I believe they lack top level talent and partly because they dont have the desire or the balls to make a bold move to acquire that type of talent. They won't jeopardize priority #1 - make the playoffs.

                  As for RFAs, I fully understand that the rules make it difficult and / or expensive to acquire a RFA. However, it is completely absurd for the team to completely take those players off the table. We haven't been told that it's difficult or even unlikely, we've been told that the mighty EOY (and his high powered team) can't be trusted to make decisions on an individual basis. They can't do it - period. If you don't find that absurd, then we will just have to disagree.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...

                    Originally posted by docpaul View Post
                    For some reason, this argument reminds me of how my wife is around food.

                    Wife: "man, this sandwich is good... what is it?"
                    Me: "I think it's chicken salad."
                    Wife: "what are the ingredients?"
                    Me: "Hmm, probably chicken, celery, mayo?"
                    Wife: "yuck, mayo... I can't stand mayo."
                    Me: "Yeah, I know that. Why did you stop eating the sandwich?"
                    Wife: "I hate mayo."

                    I guess I never understand why some are so concerned with the ingredients, and why they can't simply enjoy the sandwich? It either tastes good, or it doesn't. I'm certainly not one to get in the way of the chefs... because I'm not a chef myself.
                    Are you suggesting I should be happy with a nice little team that plays hard and looks good, but can never really compete with the big boys? If so, then we may just be different types of fans. And I don't mean that in a derogatory sense. I actually enjoy watching a team learn and improve if I believe in where they are going. I'm more excited for this upcoming Colts season than any in the last 5 years. I believe in what they are doing. I don't believe in what the Pacers are selling. It kills me because I really, truly would like to. But I don't. This team, IMO, is fools gold. I would love to be wrong. The worst part is we likely won't know for sure for 2 - 3 more years.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...

                      Are we really questioning the Simon ownership group? The same group that lead this team out of duldrums of the 80s? Get out of here with that nonsense. Silliest damn thing I've read all day. Maybe the RFA thing is silly (ok it's really silly), but claiming they don't want to spend a la the Clippers? Absolutely insane. If anything, the Simon's have proven to be too willing to spend, that is how we ended up in our last situation, we were over paying WAY too much, but now people are trying to spin it like we don't know if the Simon's will pay to win? Come on now it can't be both, and we've already seen plenty of proof that over spending will break our back.

                      People always like to talk about the Pacers not being able to get big name stars, here's a question about the other side of the coin, when was the last time the Pacers lost a really good player that they wouldn't pay? Only guy I can think of is Brad Miller, and that's because we were busy forking over one of the largest contracts in NBA history to Jermaine O'Neal. The Simon's will pay to win, I have no doubt about that, if anything they will overpay, so yes we will pay Roy, even if it means it is a max deal (which I dread.)

                      Comparing the Pacers to the Clippers? Talk about delusional. The Clippers are a franchise famous for not paying their own players, the Pacers are probably famous for over paying our own players.

                      This is a figure head position in the end. Believe me the Simons are very loyal, that is one thing that is true about them, and I wouldn't be surprised if Walsh asked for some sort of job so he could feel like he was doing SOMETHING. Saying he's in charge of our "free agents" could just be fluff. There is a whole lot of over reaction in here.

                      What has Bird done to go from chosen one to pariah on here now? Most of this board needs to learn to live more in the middle. Two months ago Bird was infallible, now he is part of the group that hires Walsh and people are willing to go jump off the Soldier's and Sailor's monument. Doesn't make any damn sense.
                      Last edited by Trader Joe; 06-25-2012, 11:32 PM.


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                      • #41
                        Re: NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...

                        Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                        Are we really questioning the Simon ownership group? The same group that lead this team out of duldrums of the 80s? Get out of here with that nonsense. Silliest damn thing I've read all day.

                        Comparing the Pacers to the Clippers? Talk about delusional.
                        "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...

                          Originally posted by rm1369 View Post
                          Are you suggesting I should be happy with a nice little team that plays hard and looks good, but can never really compete with the big boys? If so, then we may just be different types of fans. And I don't mean that in a derogatory sense. I actually enjoy watching a team learn and improve if I believe in where they are going. I'm more excited for this upcoming Colts season than any in the last 5 years. I believe in what they are doing. I don't believe in what the Pacers are selling. It kills me because I really, truly would like to. But I don't. This team, IMO, is fools gold. I would love to be wrong. The worst part is we likely won't know for sure for 2 - 3 more years.
                          This strikes me as a separate concern than who comes into the front office?

                          Me, personally... I still think the team is in the building phase, and hasn't actually had the chance to trade/deal from a position of strength. But I'm no more of a Nostradamus than you are. Shrug.

                          I just don't see what our team's long term potential has to do with a story about bringing Walsh in a supporting role.

                          In a couple of years of playoff mediocrity (once it happens), it would seem sensible to be frustrated by our team's water treading. However, we're not really at that place yet.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...

                            Originally posted by tadscout View Post
                            Where have you been the last 1-2 years? LB did exactly what he said he would do in his three year plan, and not many if any GMs could have done it as well, sticking to the plan.

                            The RFA thing is only common sense... Only way you can actually sign a RFA is to overpay, a luxury a small market team can't do. Also Simon said in an interview he would allow LB to go after a RFA if it was a right player (and those normally are players that would be matched by their own team no matter what!). So pretty much only way we can get a RFA and not overpay for their talent is if it is a max level player and their team can't match b/c of going over the luxury tax. -- Only common sense.
                            Totally disagree there are situations where RFA makes sense. Think about when a team is up versus the cap. There are times you don't overpay OJ Mayo for example is a RFA yet the Grizz can't afford him. The RFA thing isn't common sense it's plain stupid to hinder your team that way regardless if you ever plan to go after RFAs.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...

                              I see it more like Walsh has been working for 50 yrs then retires for a yr and his wife is nagging the s*** out of him and driving him crazy so he calls his old buddy Herb Simon and asks if he can help him. Herbie says you can have an office and do some BS job with the club so you can get away from being with the wife 24/7 and have some peace and quiet.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: NY Daily News: Walsh is officially back with the Pacers...

                                For my part, I'm suggesting that maybe Herb Simon is not an A+ owner but perhaps an A- owner and that if that is the case, the already-stated concerns may help to explain why.

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