Odd Thoughts: Round 2 game 6 of 2012 NBA playoffs

[vapacersfan]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 2 game 6 of 2012 NBA playoffs

I really dont care (I think the NBA is soft as hell and I hate how lovey dubby these guys are now adays. Then again, I am often told I dont have feelings or emotions) and dont think it is a big issue at all.

I do agree with whoever said it earlier, however, that if the roles were reversed and the Pacers beat the Heat this place would be lighting them up left and right, and we would have multiple threads calling them poor sports.

[Justin Tyme]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 2 game 6 of 2012 NBA playoffs

Every one in the pre-game show said the samething: FEED HIBBERT and West. Hibbert took a whopping 8 shots! That's about 5-6 shots less than he should have taken, but then when you aren't passed the ball it's hard to shoot the ball. I'll say it again and again, the Pacers need a PG that knows how and when to pass. A PG that involves his teammates in the game, and makes other players better. I love listening to Hubie Brown and his comment was Hill is a scoring PG. Bingo right on the money. This isn't what the Pacers need as a PG.

[PR07]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 2 game 6 of 2012 NBA playoffs

The ball handling and passing has to get better between our point guard and wings. Too many times in this series our guys either couldn't or didn't make the pass to Hibbert or West, our one key advantage in this series. Paul George is probably the worst culprit at this, but both of our PG's have tunnel vision and offer little creativity/vision as passers.

I also felt that our bench would be a strength in the series, given Miami's lack of any depth. However, outside of Collison, and maybe Dahntay Jones's defense on Wade, the whole unit was pretty bad. This should've been a strength in this series, but it wasn't.

Vogel also needs to learn how to make adjustments. It shouldn't have taken that long to learn how to get our bigs the ball when someone fronts them or even that we desperately needed to pound the ball inside all series. For the second half of the series, he was outcoached.

[Trader Joe]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 2 game 6 of 2012 NBA playoffs

Something I'd like to talk about and IMO was the worst coaching decision of the whole series, was the decision by Vogel when the Pacers were down 97-91 to go with a lineup of DC, Hill, Danny, Paul, and West for defensive purposes. That made no damn sense to me. If you're going for defense why do you have West in there instead of Roy?

I thought that was terrible coaching.

[RWB]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 2 game 6 of 2012 NBA playoffs

No problem with the no hand shakes. Of course I like the idea the Pacers are starting some nice rivalries.

[Unclebuck]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 2 game 6 of 2012 NBA playoffs

Something I'd like to talk about and IMO was the worst coaching decision of the whole series, was the decision by Vogel when the Pacers were down 97-91 to go with a lineup of DC, Hill, Danny, Paul, and West for defensive purposes. That made no damn sense to me. If you're going for defense why do you have West in there instead of Roy?

I thought that was terrible coaching.

I am not saying I agree with the coahcing decision. But it was made for defense and specifically because Roy was getting killed in the pick and rolls.

[Trader Joe]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 2 game 6 of 2012 NBA playoffs

I am not saying I agree with the coahcing decision. But it was made for defense and specifically because Roy was getting killed in the pick and rolls.

Yes, but the very next two plays Lebron just went straight to the hole without any concern of having his shot affected.

[Hicks]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 2 game 6 of 2012 NBA playoffs

I really dont care (I think the NBA is soft as hell and I hate how lovey dubby these guys are now adays. Then again, I am often told I dont have feelings or emotions) and dont think it is a big issue at all.

I do agree with whoever said it earlier, however, that if the roles were reversed and the Pacers beat the Heat this place would be lighting them up left and right, and we would have multiple threads calling them poor sports.

Well, yeah, but it's because those two not shaking hands would be putting the exclamation mark on a long, long sentence of petulance, flopping, and hypocrisy already displayed. Par for the course. West and Granger giving their behavior the cold shoulder isn't the same thing, really. Not when you look at the bigger body of work.

[Hicks]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 2 game 6 of 2012 NBA playoffs

Yes, but the very next two plays Lebron just went straight to the hole without any concern of having his shot affected.

So basically it was pick your poison. And Roy was pretty gassed, and West was the one between the two who had been going offensively, too.

[DgR]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 2 game 6 of 2012 NBA playoffs

Sorry guys, I find it very hard to stay optimistic right now. As much as I love this team, and I like almost everyone from the roster to the coaching staff, and as much as I appreciate their great effort and the huge leaps they've made this year, this series was more deflating than anything else. Especially last night's game. We got to see the true gulf between us and a true elite team. We were playing at home, against a Miami team who were without their top 2 big men, we shot the ball nearly 50%, we out rebounded them by 11, but it still wasn't even close and always in the Heat's hands.
Except from the first quarter of game 6, we lost every single quarter since the 3rd of game 4. That's losing 9 of the last 10 quarters of the series.

To our credit, we made the Heat step up. We made them realize they had to bring their best, but once we woke them up in game 3, it was all over.

To me, our entire playoff run was quite underwhelming. We struggled much more than anyone anticipated against the Howardless Magic in the 1st round, and we were dominated by the Bosh-less Heat in the 2nd round. I don't think we pushed the Heat very hard this series, we made go out of first gear and it was enough for them.
We may have had the 5th best record in the league this year, but I think we're really only the 5th best team in the east, not the entire league.

Of course, improving to the 5th in the east is also a great improvement from last year's 8th, but we're going to need something special to happen if we want to take it to the next level. Either a major talent signing/ masterstroke of a trade or hope Paul George becomes a game changer.

Regarding the end of the game, I personally have no problem with Granger and West not shaking hands with the Heat's players after the loss. This wasn't just highly contested series, it was personal. I felt their players were disrespecting our guys from start to finish (we also had a disrespectful incident with Lance but even then Miami's retaliation was trying to send him to the hospital). Some of their players don't deserve to be congratulated.

I haven't hated a team like do this incarnation of the Heat for a long time, and I hope they crash and burn in a 2nd consecutive NBA final.

[Trader Joe]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 2 game 6 of 2012 NBA playoffs

Fifth in the East right now? Hilarious.

[DgR]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 2 game 6 of 2012 NBA playoffs

Fifth in the East right now? Hilarious.

Can you say with certainty we're a better team than a full strength Atlanta, Boston & Orlando? Maybe these teams will be broken up in the summer but until they are, I think we're at best on par with them if not slightly inferior.

[Hicks]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 2 game 6 of 2012 NBA playoffs

I need to look up what Roy and George's cap holds are to have a clearer picture here, but I know that they are not nearly as large as what their new contracts will be (particularly for Roy), so a good chunk of that 22m in cap space is still in play even if we plan to keep both of them.

That having been said, I hope we offer a contract to Nash. I think that unless he just does not want to play in/for Indiana, or otherwise he just feels like there's a better choice for him to make, you can get him for a couple of years. And I believe we can potentially get hom and keep Roy and Hill.

If so, you are initially looking at something like this for a rotation:

Nash/Collison
George/Hill
Granger/George
West/Hansbrough
Hibbert/Fesenko(?)

What I like about this is besides the tremendous offensive improvement, you keep DC and Hill, which makes things very adaptable at the PG position, and I really think Hill is at his best at the backup SG position.

Now, Tyler is a guy where if I think what we saw this year is all we're going to get, then I pray there's at least one GM that feels differently and see what I can get in a trade. I'm not totally convinced that is his fate (I can conceive of him coming back with a much better season), but I think it's the more probably outcome right now.

I'm still intrigued by Fesenko. I'd never project him to become anything greater than a backup center at this point, but if that is the case, I would rather have him than Lou in the long term because I like his size, I think he'll contribute defensively, eat up space in general, and I think he can give us a little something offensively in the post. So obviously I'm hoping we re-sign him, and he should not be expensive.

If we're going to stay cheap at the backup PF, then if you think it's time to trade Tyler, I still think Pendergraph can fill that role at a respectable level. I liked what I saw from him on Synergy when he was a Blazer, and I think what he showed the night he started for us is a taste of what he can do if he is fed consistent minutes. He is longer and more athletic than Tyler, he has a hint of a post game and a jumper, and I think he could help alter some shots defensively with his length. Nothing special, but frankly it looks better to me than what Tyler was giving us.

Alternatively, you could re-sign Lou and play hi, at what would be a more natural position for him. I think it might allow him to give us a little more when he's not oversized so often.

Honestly, if I think Pendergraph can do what I've described, I'd just as soon go with Jeff than Lou. If Lou can accept being our 5th big, great, if not on well.

Now, here's the other thing: I'd be very curious to know what DC could fetch in a trade. He's a good player. I wonder if he and Tyler could fetch someone like Paul Milsap, who would be a great 3rd big man to have. It'd be sad to see him go, but if that happens, don't forget we very well may have Dahntay Jones back, too, and you could go with this rotation:

Nash/Hill
George/Jones
Granger/George
West/Milsap
Hibbert/Fesenko

I don't know if that is a title contender or not, but damn I would love to find out!

[Ransom]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 2 game 6 of 2012 NBA playoffs

Given that a lot of people complained about Lebron not shaking hands, the discussion here becomes like a poker game where nobody has a strong hand and the first person to bet representing a stronger hand than they have wins because everyone folds. If you're a Lebron/Heat fan, you immediately jump up about how 'hypocritical' it is that the media jumped on Lebron, if you're the Pacers, you jump out and say they aren't really in a place to complain because Lebron already did it.

I'm a bit disappointed, though I do feel the Heat acted pretty much like jerks all series and handshakes would probably be insincere.

[BillS]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 2 game 6 of 2012 NBA playoffs

Simply put, and believe me I hate saying this as much as you hate reading it, a two superstar combination can beat a team. Sure they got some help again tonight from some of their role players but in the end it was the two man combo that once again sounded the horns of ragnarok on our season. I hate both of them but at the end of the day this was the Wade I have known and feared for years as a Pacer fan. He has always killed us, even back when he was a rookie we knew this guy was for real and tonight he was just hitting shots that he had no business hitting. There were times that he was defended as well as he could be defended and he still sunk hard shots. At that point all I could do was sit in both disgust and amazement. Yes, he really looks to be bailed out on every play by the referee’s but at the end of the day he is just amazing to watch and if he wasn’t kicking our team’s butts I probably would have enjoyed his performance. But since we were on the receiving end of that I could not enjoy it.

Here's the thing, though. Suppose the Pacers don't have the unforced turnovers? Suppose PG has another year of experience under his belt? Heck, suppose the offense was designed so that players would move without the ball so as to be able to get it to the post better?

I agree that you are not going to be able to depend on your defense to win against the 2 superstar team, and the downfall of the Pacers is that our defense was the only thing really going for us this season. Our offense has been weak and streaky all year and this series just proved it.

It wasn't that two superstars won the game, it's that 2 superstars can overcome the defense. Had we gotten consistent offense and been able to use our strengths - neither issue really having been caused by those superstars - we stood a very good chance of winning.

A team CAN beat 2 superstars. We just weren't that team. Yet.