Pacers/Memphis postgame thread

[D-BONE]

Re: Pacers/Memphis postgame thread

Also, and it's way obvious, but when is our O going to realize it's all about movement and execute accordingly? Too much one pass and shoot.

[Cubs231721]

Re: Pacers/Memphis postgame thread

To put things in perspective,

Memphis is 14-13 despite playing the 2nd hardest schedule in the league so far according to Sagarin (they've lost to Oklahoma City and San Antonio a combined 6 times already, they split with the Bulls, beat Houston, Denver, and Atlanta, etc.) Their record should improve as their schedule gets softer. They are 9-4 at home and the only two teams to beat them at home so far are Oklahoma City and San Antonio.

Plus they're only allowing 91.7 points per game which in the West and playing that schedule is pretty impressive. This was very likely going to be a game the Pacers struggled offensively in.

As for the Pacers schedule, they are 26 games in and they have already crossed the halfway mark in number of road games. Tomorrow night in their 27th game they'll have hit the halfway mark of playing teams that are currently over .500. The Pacers still have a pretty good amount of games against the top contenders left, but other then that their schedule has been harder so far than it will be the rest of the year.

I would agree the Pacers didn't play their A game tonight. Against a lesser team the Pacers B or C game might have been enough. Against a good team who plays well on their home floor, it wasn't. But I was impressed that the Pacers were right there despite feeling like they struggled the entire game.

I do think the rotations need to be mixed up a bit though. I don't think George is the right player to be the primary option in the 2nd unit. That causes him to go to his weakest areas (trying to attack off the dribble in the halfcourt or come off screens to shoot moving jump shots). Personally, I'd switch him and Granger. That will give George more time with the first unit that can get him open looks at 3's or transition buckets and Granger can have a few minutes where he is the primary guy. When Hill comes back this might not be as big of a concern though.

[I Love P]

Re: Pacers/Memphis postgame thread

I was the guy behind the Grizzlies' bench.

[Hicks]

Re: Pacers/Memphis postgame thread

I knew Roy would go into a funk when he was sulking on the bench against the Magic.

Like he did against Utah, right?

...

[BringJackBack]

Re: Pacers/Memphis postgame thread

Paul George played very bad, but for the first time tonight I saw him have the ability to create his own shot like it's nothing... So that's good in of itself.

We need a point guard that can distribute so that we can get Roy the ball and get our guys open shots and it can most certainly happen...

[imawhat]

Re: Pacers/Memphis postgame thread

Like he did against Utah, right?

...

Yes, like against Utah. His numbers from that game are way better than he played, IMO. Same with his Atlanta box score; it was better than he played.

Like someone else said it looks like conditioning problems but he's not trying for some reason. I thought JOB was the coach last night because I saw too much Roy above the elbow (and sometimes three point line) on offense. It's one thing to have a few off nights and another to stop trying. Roy had been.fighting for post position even when unsuccessful and lately he's stopped.

[BillS]

Re: Pacers/Memphis postgame thread

I thought JOB was the coach last night because I saw too much Roy above the elbow (and sometimes three point line) on offense. It's one thing to have a few off nights and another to stop trying. Roy had been.fighting for post position even when unsuccessful and lately he's stopped.

Could it be that they are trying to figure out a way to counter what other teams with strong centers are throwing at Roy on defense?

Naah, that's impossible, we all know that whatever works in the first few weeks of the season only stops working because someone stops trying...

[BringJackBack]

Re: Pacers/Memphis postgame thread

Vogel would not stop having Roy be the focal point of the offense. It's not him. No way, his main objective as the Pacers coach towards the players was making Roy get the touches he deserves.

It has to be the players.. We are running pick n rolls and screens and not looking for Roy.

[imawhat]

Re: Pacers/Memphis postgame thread

Could it be that they are trying to figure out a way to counter what other teams with strong centers are throwing at Roy on defense?

Naah, that's impossible, we all know that whatever works in the first few weeks of the season only stops working because someone stops trying...

I don't think he's being advised to stand around.

Also, pretty sure every opponents' game plan has "Stop Roy" listed at #1 or #2. The book's been out on how to stop him since his rookie season, but I think he's played well this season because he's stronger but more importantly he's been very persistent about getting position after getting denied. That's what has disappeared.

[Sookie]

Re: Pacers/Memphis postgame thread

What does it mean when our whole lineup is dependent on GH returning to the lineup?

It means that our lineup isn't as strong as we thought.

I understand that when we have GH in the lineup.....it kicks everyone down "one rung of the ladder" in the 2nd Unit when it comes to offensive / Defensive end and what role they fill when they are on the floor together....but I think that the loss of GH only highlights the lack of quality depth that we have beyond the "Starting 7".

One thing that I have noticed.....our lack of energy and lack of "spring in our steps" is a result of the change in the rotations that Vogel has been forced to make since GH was lost to injuries and the recent inconsistent play from game to game that we have gotten from Hansbrough ( whose taken a minor step back in terms of productivity as of late ) which has resulted in playing about 3-4 mpg less a game over the last 10 games. As a result, our Starting lineup has all played an average of 2 to 5 minutes more per game ( depending on the Player ) compared to the previous months. Granger has played 38 mpg ( he averages 34 mpg ), Collison has played 37 mpg ( he averages 34 mpg ) and Hibbert has played 34 mpg ( he averages 30 mpg ) over the last 5 games. Now, one may think that a 2 to 5 mpg doesn't mean much......but in a shortened season...add in that ( at most ) the Team has less and less time to rest between games and the increased # of B2B games...and the fatigue will start to build up.

When Key Players get injured...it's expected for the rest of the lineup to adjust. But in a shortened season where there are very few days where you get more than a day off ad there are far more B2B games......I'd prefer to have better quality depth at all key positions so that we don't have to give more minutes to key Players since it is harder to rest from game to game.

As Hicks said....the Team ( if not the league ) can't wait for GH to return and for the ASB to get here.

No, it means that our lineup doesn't have any scorers (well one)

But people have short memories. When GH was healthy, the bench was still having problems, because there was no point guard playing.

The truth is, we need both Price and Hill playing in the rotation. I know people don't like AJ and would rather see Lance play. But Lance has proven he's not ready to play backup PG, and he's not being productive as a backup SG. (Although, he's been better at that spot)

That's not to say Lance hasn't been productive. He's proven to me, that he's very good in transition. And he tries to bring energy to the team. But he can't run an offense, he can't take care of the ball, and he's struggling to score.

AJ has played well the past two games, and was fantastic when played next to Hill. He's getting the ball to Tyler almost every time down the floor, moving the ball, taking care of the ball, and playing excellent defense. There's just no scorers on the bench, particularly when Tyler is off. His problem has been his shooting/scoring. (Someone needs to explain how such a pretty jump shot is so inaccurate) -which won't be a problem next to Hill. As Eleazer said, he needs more scorers on the floor with him.

With Hill and AJ on the floor, the floor opens up for Tyler, he's also likely to get the ball in better spots, because those two together have ball movement "with purpose." (Unlike now, where everybody, including the other team, is pretty darn aware that we want Tyler to take the shot. )

Foster's obviously not going to score, other than offensive rebounds and putbacks. And Dahntay can get it going when he needs to, but even he has been struggling to score as of late.

So yes, it's struggling without Hill because we need a scorer. But people have forgotten - for whatever reason- that before, it was struggling because there was no point guard..

edit: and if the Pacers really don't want to play AJ, they're going to need a backup PG for the bench unit. Period.

[Justin Tyme]

Re: Pacers/Memphis postgame thread

I agree that we need Jeff for the regular season, but to say that he has to contribute more is pretty silly. In his first game back he gets 6 points and 7 rebounds in less than 13 minutes.

That's exactly what I was saying. Foster played and Foster contribute. When being dressed in civies and not playing, he isn't contributing to making the bench better nor helping the Pacers win. He needs to be playing to get the max out of him this year, not sitting on a shelf, then getting him down and dusting him off for the playoffs. He's not an antique that you put on a shelf in the closet only to bring it out when you have company to show it's value to others. His value is in his playing and helping this team now.

[Justin Tyme]

Re: Pacers/Memphis postgame thread

struggling because there was no point guard..

IMO, the only pg on this team is DC. Lance nor Hill are NOT true PG's, but combo guards. Price apparently feels he's a SG with emphasize on the shooting part. This team needs a PG that is a pass 1st, get others involved, and shoot last PG. A PG that understands the true PG role is to facilitate and values the concept of getting others the ball to score points thus creating an assist.

I'm tired of watching Price pound the ball, been there done that with Travis Best, while the shot clock runs down only to make a hail Mary shot b4 a shot clock violation occurrs. The bench needs a true PG to facilitate and make the bench better. I wish I knew where Bird could find this elusive creature, but off hand I don't. What I do know is something has to change in regards to a b/u PG, and it has to change for the better soon.

[Sookie]

Re: Pacers/Memphis postgame thread

IMO, the only pg on this team is DC. Lance nor Hill are NOT true PG's, but combo guards. Price apparently feels he's a SG with emphasize on the shooting part. This team needs a PG that is a pass 1st, get others involved, and shoot last PG. A PG that understands the true PG role is to facilitate and values the concept of getting others the ball to score points thus creating an assist.

I'm tired of watching Price pound the ball, been there done that with Travis Best, while the shot clock runs down only to make a hail Mary shot b4 a shot clock violation occurrs. The bench needs a true PG to facilitate and make the bench better. I wish I knew where Bird could find this elusive creature, but off hand I don't. What I do know is something has to change in regards to a b/u PG, and it has to change for the better soon.

except that's not what he does.

Sometimes he dribbles a little while, because he's patient, and trying to get the ball to Tyler. And sometimes he gives the ball up quickly, once again, because someone has a good angle to get get it to Tyler, or because he has a good angle to Tyler.

But if Tyler doesn't get a shot, that means usually, he's got to create something with five seconds left. There's not much you can do with that.

Offense isn't going to look pretty, regardless of the backup PG, unless there's some scorers out there. Why we need Hill.

AJ's actually played well the past two games. He's missed some shots, but he's played well. He's doing what he's supposed to do, the bench just struggles to score.

[McKeyFan]

Re: Pacers/Memphis postgame thread

This team needs a PG that is a pass 1st, get others involved, and shoot last PG. A PG that understands the true PG role is to facilitate and values the concept of getting others the ball to score points thus creating an assist.

I actually think all these qualities apply to DC. He has been great this year in his attitude and focus.

He just doesn't have the court vision and ability to do pass first well.

[spazzxb]

I just want to add one more thing and I'll leave it alone... I thought the play after Granger's steal (which should have been Lance's btw), when he missed Lance on the fast break, was rather embarrassing. It took him 3 dribbles with his head down before he realized what was going on :shakehead. Yeah, he eventually got it to him, but a player at this level shouldn't do that.

Danny actually apologized to Lance after that. He said he couldn't get a hold of the ball.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus