Odd Thoughts: Skinning the Cats

[owl]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Skinning the Cats

Or put simply is the improved play just based on emotion if so it isn't going to last.

More than likely it is a little bit of both.

If emotion the improvement won't last but I believe the change in philosophy will carry this team much further than they ever could have under OB.

Changes

1-Less threes
2-Less Posey
3-More Josh and Tyler
4-Inside out game
5-Roy is alive


I really like what they are doing with Roy by having him practice one on one with Coach
Potapenko and only allowing Roy to score by dunking. That is EXACTLY what Roy needs to make him more aggressive and also to learn to keep his balance despite the physical contact. PERFECT.

[Justin Tyme]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Skinning the Cats

So the bearskin represents the guy we aren't' supposed to talk about?

You truly thought that was a bear skin in a thread called "Odd thoughts: Skinning the Cats? Thanks for the early morning laugh.

[owl]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Skinning the Cats

You truly thought that was a bear skin in a thread called "Odd thoughts: Skinning the Cats? Thanks for the early morning laugh.

McKeyFan needs to go outside more often. ;-)

[MyFavMartin]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Skinning the Cats

The skinned bobcat is irrelevant.

[Justin Tyme]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Skinning the Cats

I'm not here to jump on Jimmy, but Jimmy was totally convinced his system would work. As a child, the small town I lived in had a a town looney that had been in and out of the mental institution. This man I believe was an engineer in his field of endeavor. He thought he had discovered "perpetual motion." He even had a blue print of it hanging in his shanty on the wall. He just couldn't come to the grips of reality that he never discovered pertual motion device. The same with Jimmy in that he has never come to the realization that his system has flaws. I'm not saying Jimmy is crazy, just obsessed to the point he has a terrible case of tunnel vision where he can't admit his system is flawed and can't be used w/o the proper type players. To me his obsession is so bad that it is caused his downfall. JMOAA

[Justin Tyme]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Skinning the Cats

McKeyFan needs to go outside more often. ;-)

Must be a city person. Probably thinks that little black creature with a white stripe on it's back is a kitty cat too. j/k

[maragin]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Skinning the Cats

I typically enjoy Peck's Odd Thoughts, but this one was especially good. Spot on, keep 'em coming.

[Peck]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Skinning the Cats

It has only been 11 days, so certainly not yet. The allstar break begins after the game Wednesday. I'll say after the AS break the honeymoon is over.

What I cannot figure out is this: are the changes that have been made by the coaching staff (different rotations, different offense, more positive approach) are those having a very positive impact because they are just different and or is the positive impact mainly just because JOB is gone. If that is the case than this is temporary. However are the changes that have been made do they go beyond just a change in attitude or just being more positive do they in a more structual way change the way this team is going to play going forward.

Or put simply is the improved play just based on emotion if so it isn't going to last.

More than likely it is a little bit of both.

While certainly there is a bump simply because O'Brien is gone, it's not that simple nor is the answer to your question that hard.

There would be no record change at all if the only thing that occurred was for there to be a coaching change.

Example; we fire O'Brien but Vogel comes in and provides the exact same rotation, exact same offense, exact same substitution pattern then you would have the exact same results.

While Jim certainly may have been a person that the team did not care for, it was his on court decisions that were mostly impacting the team.

Just go to the very first part of my post for the example. We both know that Posey would not only have closed out the game but he most likely would have played anywhere from 15-20 min. throughout the game. But go beyond that, there never would have been the emphasis on getting Roy the ball so much in the paint, Danny Granger would not have been nearly as select in his shot taking, our motion offense that took the ball out of our point guards hands would have been prime target for the athletic wings of Wallace, Jackson & Henderson to disrupt. Most importantly our team would never have only taken 11 three point attempts (did our team ever attempt that few three's under Jim)

There may be a honeymoon of good feelings, and yes we are going to start losing more often sooner or later, but this turn around is NOT about an emotional charge by discharging the former coach.

This is about a return to fundamental basketball that makes sense. There is accountability for poor shots, there is more emphasis on getting the ball to the paint, there is higher value placed on tough defense and rebounding. There is an actual plan in place to grow the young talent and as many of us have complained about for three years, that young talent is your best opportunity to win NOW not just in the future.

While I understand your skepticism and share your concern about what happens when we hit the first 2-3 game skid I will say that I don't believe for a second that this is just a high from changing the coach.

[Trader Joe]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Skinning the Cats

We could be .500 or damn near it by the end of February. That would been unthinkable 6 games a go.

[naptownmenace]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Skinning the Cats

While certainly there is a bump simply because O'Brien is gone, it's not that simple nor is the answer to your question that hard.

There would be no record change at all if the only thing that occurred was for there to be a coaching change.

Example; we fire O'Brien but Vogel comes in and provides the exact same rotation, exact same offense, exact same substitution pattern then you would have the exact same results.

While Jim certainly may have been a person that the team did not care for, it was his on court decisions that were mostly impacting the team.

Just go to the very first part of my post for the example. We both know that Posey would not only have closed out the game but he most likely would have played anywhere from 15-20 min. throughout the game. But go beyond that, there never would have been the emphasis on getting Roy the ball so much in the paint, Danny Granger would not have been nearly as select in his shot taking, our motion offense that took the ball out of our point guards hands would have been prime target for the athletic wings of Wallace, Jackson & Henderson to disrupt. Most importantly our team would never have only taken 11 three point attempts (did our team ever attempt that few three's under Jim)

There may be a honeymoon of good feelings, and yes we are going to start losing more often sooner or later, but this turn around is NOT about an emotional charge by discharging the former coach.

This is about a return to fundamental basketball that makes sense. There is accountability for poor shots, there is more emphasis on getting the ball to the paint, there is higher value placed on tough defense and rebounding. There is an actual plan in place to grow the young talent and as many of us have complained about for three years, that young talent is your best opportunity to win NOW not just in the future.

While I understand your skepticism and share your concern about what happens when we hit the first 2-3 game skid I will say that I don't believe for a second that this is just a high from changing the coach.

Great reply post to a great "Odd Thoughts" thread.

I'll just add that the Pacers are playing a lot like the Philadelphia 76ers. They began winning after re-emphasizing the low post game of Elton Brand. They've simplified things for the young guys and focused on the fundamentals. Not surprisingly, they're a much improved team currently in the thick of a playoff hunt after a terrible start (much worse than the Pacers' start) to the season.

This change was overdo for the Pacers and I'm just glad it happened when it did. Winning is the best way to build confidence and winning close games builds valuable experience that will help them as they try to close out the regular season and move up the playoff bracket.

[Since86]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Skinning the Cats

While certainly there is a bump simply because O'Brien is gone, it's not that simple nor is the answer to your question that hard.

There would be no record change at all if the only thing that occurred was for there to be a coaching change.

Example; we fire O'Brien but Vogel comes in and provides the exact same rotation, exact same offense, exact same substitution pattern then you would have the exact same results.

While Jim certainly may have been a person that the team did not care for, it was his on court decisions that were mostly impacting the team.

Just go to the very first part of my post for the example. We both know that Posey would not only have closed out the game but he most likely would have played anywhere from 15-20 min. throughout the game. But go beyond that, there never would have been the emphasis on getting Roy the ball so much in the paint, Danny Granger would not have been nearly as select in his shot taking, our motion offense that took the ball out of our point guards hands would have been prime target for the athletic wings of Wallace, Jackson & Henderson to disrupt. Most importantly our team would never have only taken 11 three point attempts (did our team ever attempt that few three's under Jim)

There may be a honeymoon of good feelings, and yes we are going to start losing more often sooner or later, but this turn around is NOT about an emotional charge by discharging the former coach.

This is about a return to fundamental basketball that makes sense. There is accountability for poor shots, there is more emphasis on getting the ball to the paint, there is higher value placed on tough defense and rebounding. There is an actual plan in place to grow the young talent and as many of us have complained about for three years, that young talent is your best opportunity to win NOW not just in the future.

While I understand your skepticism and share your concern about what happens when we hit the first 2-3 game skid I will say that I don't believe for a second that this is just a high from changing the coach.

Good God, I think I could quote this post for days.


Some people need to read this about 15 times before they're allowed to post again.

[Sookie]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Skinning the Cats

I think Granger has also struggled a bit with the system change, particularly with shot selection.

I like Vogel, but it's become clear he's got to fix a few things.

1. Team defense. That's got to improve. The second unit is better defensively than the first, pretty much because our starting backcourt can't guard anyone.

It's pretty easy to fix that. Start Rush. But more than that, Danny needs to improve significantly. I saw him play great defense in November. I know he can do it. So he needs too.

Dun will help out the second unit a lot too. IMO.

2. Fourth quarter collapses. Part of this is youth, obviously. But it's a problem that needs to be fixed. We need to stop the Danny ISO and get the ball into Roy. Working it inside and out. I know teams adjust their defense, but Vogel's got to re-adjust.

I like Vogel. There's something about him...I think he can be a very very good coach. But one of my biggest problems with JOB was the way he adjusted..and I want to see how Vogel does, now that we've established some problems.

[Speed]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Skinning the Cats

Ya I don't know the reason why they are rolling, we'll see. I do think a big piece is Roy though...

What I worry about is Roy getting countered again and if he has an answer, this go around.

Other teams will again start to counter his great play and try to take him away like they did in November. The other teams went away from focusing on Roy recently because he was really struggling.

Last night watching Charlotte start to come with a double team in the second half made me consider this.

To me thats a huge thing that will likely happen, I'm interested to see how Roy and the coaching staff reacts.

My biggest question for the rest of the season is what will Roy/Vogel do, when teams start to game plan to take him away again.

[daschysta]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Skinning the Cats

I'm not as worried about teams adjusting to roy anymore. Jim's inclination was never to run through roy, but against his "better judgement" he did early in the season, possibly due to pressure from management. It worked for a while, but when teams started to adjust JOB took the opportunity to follow his initial instinct and started going away from Roy.

The difference now is that the focus is consistantly getting roy the ball, and I believe that the adjustment will be made due to an earnest understanding that it is what is best for the team. Because really, Roy is 7'2 and a good passer. All that we need to do is get the ball to him in a good position and htere isn't much a double team can do to stop his shot.

[BPump33]

Re: Odd Thoughts: Skinning the Cats

I'm not as worried about teams adjusting to roy anymore. Jim's inclination was never to run through roy, but against his "better judgement" he did early in the season, possibly due to pressure from management. It worked for a while, but when teams started to adjust JOB took the opportunity to follow his initial instinct and started going away from Roy.

The difference now is that the focus is consistantly getting roy the ball, and I believe that the adjustment will be made due to an earnest understanding that it is what is best for the team. Because really, Roy is 7'2 and a good passer. All that we need to do is get the ball to him in a good position and htere isn't much a double team can do to stop his shot.

Agreed. I think him catching the ball 5 feet from the basket will always be a better situation then 18 feet from the basket. Seems like common sense, right? Well, that's not what was happening before for the most part.