Why is Kirk Hinrich not getting more mention as a Pacers target?

[Jay@Section12]

Re: Why is Kirk Hinrich not getting more mention as a Pacers target?

Look, I'm okay with trading for a long-term contract on a PG that we like. I just don't think that player is Hinrich.

If there's a PG that we like, pretty good chance that his current team likes him too and will command a lopsided trade to pry that player away.

We're a year away from making a lopsided trade that doesn't put us into several more years of salary Hell.

[Jay@Section12]

Re: Why is Kirk Hinrich not getting more mention as a Pacers target?

I know fans are sick of patience, but impatience will get you a 32 to 36 win team with hard to trade players for years.

Fixed.

[beast23]

Re: Why is Kirk Hinrich not getting more mention as a Pacers target?

Guess it depends on your philosophy. You could reach out for guys like Hinrich and Horford because they're the best available at the moment that might go for a small market team.

Personally, if I were GM, I wouldn't. Hinrich and Horford aren't going to get you to the promised land. Use your space under the cap for the deals that come your way. Pick out players that are perfect for your system. Most of all, don't try to solve every problem with a stop gap the moment your credit card has some space.

I know fans are sick of patience, but impatience will get you a 44 win team with hard to trade players for years.

You make some very good points. I totally agree with you regarding patience. I just happen to value Hinrich much more than others do; I don't view him as a stop-gap solution. So yes, I would land him because he is under existing contract.

As for the bolded statement, not to be a wise-***, but you do realize that any player that we select now will probably find himself playing in a different system in the 2011-2012 season. Because, jeesh, if JOB is somehow extended, we will all shoot ourselves.

Consequently, you might argue that, since the coach and the system will probably be different, we should wait on player acquisition. But there just aren't enough quality players available in 2011, so we need to obtain players that not only fit the JOB system, but are adaptable as well.

It seems that a great deal of the risk in what players to acquire would be made far easier if Bird would just pull the plug and replace JOB now. As you suggest, building a better team is more than just using the expiring contracts and the impending cap space to go out and acquire talented players. It must consider all aspects of the total package, and that includes the coach as well. But I suspect that should be left for another thread/topic.

[Jay@Section12]

Re: Why is Kirk Hinrich not getting more mention as a Pacers target?

Because, jeesh, if JOB is somehow extended, we will all shoot ourselves.

Please don't.

After you disappeared from PD for a season, I was worried that you'd already done so!

[Hicks]

Re: Why is Kirk Hinrich not getting more mention as a Pacers target?

Look, I'm okay with trading for a long-term contract on a PG that we like. I just don't think that player is Hinrich.

IYO, who is that player, or who are those players?

[beast23]

Re: Why is Kirk Hinrich not getting more mention as a Pacers target?

Please don't.

After you disappeared from PD for a season, I was worried that you'd already done so!

lol.... not yet. But to be honest, I've lived and died the Pacers since their inception. Just like PFFL used to say, I bleed Blue and Gold. I was just getting so angry and disappointed, I had to step away. I found myself creating posts only to backspace/delete most of what I had typed because I didnt want to portray myself as "that angry, hateful guy".

So, what's up with the kind words? We've spent an entire thread mostly disagreeing with each other (something unusual as I recall), and now you throw a spoonful of sugar my direction. But hey, I won't let my guard down... I'm still going to have to stick with my differing opinion.... lol

[beast23]

Re: Why is Kirk Hinrich not getting more mention as a Pacers target?

IYO, who is that player, or who are those players?

Exactly. And, I think everyone would probaly agree that, despite who that player eventually is, we don't want to "settle" to fill the position.

But, before even naming a player, more important considerations are:
1. What are the attributes that we expect from our PG?
2a. Are the player and his attributes suited for the present JOB-dominated ludicrous system?
2b. Are the player and his attributes adaptable to almost any system of play that is not influenced by JOB?

There are so many attributes to consider. Some that I want in no particular order: vision, distribution/delivery, handles, hitting shots when left open, non-denomination of the ball, pnr abilities, penetration ability, fast-break capable AND half-court capable, usually a pass-first mentality. An attribute very high on my list is the ability to prevent the opposing PG from penetrating into the post, to make it difficult for the opposing PG to deliver the ball into the post and better than average ability to defend the pnr.

I personally think Hinrich has many of these abilities. That is why I support his aquisiton.

[Justin Tyme]

Re: Why is Kirk Hinrich not getting more mention as a Pacers target?

What difference does it make if Hinrich has a 2nd year on his contract. There is going to be a lockout next year and it won't be paid anyway. Then after the lockout if Hinrich's 010-011 season was good, you re-sign him at less money than he's making now. It's like trading for an expiring contract when the 2nd year is a lockout.

AND yes, I'm a firm believer there is going to be a lock out in 011-012.

IMO, Hinrich isn't going to be available in a trade, but if he was for Murphy, I'd be in favor. It gives the Pacers what Bird wants which is a vet PG. It takes Jimmy's crutch, Murphy, away; so it gives 3 different young'ns the opportunity to get good PT for development. It's not like this team is going to be that great anyway under Jimmy as the coach.

[pianoman]

Re: Why is Kirk Hinrich not getting more mention as a Pacers target?

What difference does it make if Hinrich has a 2nd year on his contract. There is going to be a lockout next year and it won't be paid anyway. Then after the lockout if Hinrich's 010-011 season was good, you re-sign him at less money than he's making now. It's like trading for an expiring contract when the 2nd year is a lockout.

AND yes, I'm a firm believer there is going to be a lock out in 011-012.

IMO, Hinrich isn't going to be available in a trade, but if he was for Murphy, I'd be in favor. It gives the Pacers what Bird wants which is a vet PG. It takes Jimmy's crutch, Murphy, away; so it gives 3 different young'ns the opportunity to get good PT for development. It's not like this team is going to be that great anyway under Jimmy as the coach.

I would be VERY hesitant to go into this next season with the inexperienced McBob, the guy coming back from an injury Hansbrough, the other guy coming back from injury Foster, and the Small Forward Granger holding down the pf position. Murphy needs to be here for this season. As much as we all do not like it, he needs to be here for his final year of the contract. Remember, Dun, Murph, and Ford are in the final year of their contracts which means they will be playing for a new contract, so they will have a better season then last imo.

[woowoo]

Re: Why is Kirk Hinrich not getting more mention as a Pacers target?

what if Lance is the answer? I think Bird is now being so cautious because he genuinely likes LS.

It is not a bad thing to not make a move if one is not glaringly in the favor of Indy. I would rather sit still and play the hell out of these young fellas and reassess the situation next season.

I like the roster right now, the Pacers simply lack a PG.. and if they get one we might be on to something.. and maybe we already are.... LS....

[LA_Confidential]

Re: Why is Kirk Hinrich not getting more mention as a Pacers target?

IYO, who is that player, or who are those players?

Gilbert Arenas.

[Jay@Section12]

Re: Why is Kirk Hinrich not getting more mention as a Pacers target?

So, what's up with the kind words? We've spent an entire thread mostly disagreeing with each other (something unusual as I recall), and now you throw a spoonful of sugar my direction. But hey, I won't let my guard down... I'm still going to have to stick with my differing opinion.... lol

I want you to keep your opinion... I just didn't want to drive you away!!

[Jay@Section12]

Re: Why is Kirk Hinrich not getting more mention as a Pacers target?

Exactly. And, I think everyone would probaly agree that, despite who that player eventually is, we don't want to "settle" to fill the position.

But, before even naming a player, more important considerations are:
1. What are the attributes that we expect from our PG?
2a. Are the player and his attributes suited for the present JOB-dominated ludicrous system?
2b. Are the player and his attributes adaptable to almost any system of play that is not influenced by JOB?

There are so many attributes to consider. Some that I want in no particular order: vision, distribution/delivery, handles, hitting shots when left open, non-denomination of the ball, pnr abilities, penetration ability, fast-break capable AND half-court capable, usually a pass-first mentality. An attribute very high on my list is the ability to prevent the opposing PG from penetrating into the post, to make it difficult for the opposing PG to deliver the ball into the post and better than average ability to defend the pnr.

I personally think Hinrich has many of these abilities. That is why I support his aquisiton.

I think he has many of those as well. I'm worried about his lack of footspeed. I don't think he's as good at the court vision/ running a team/ finding the open man things as a player like Mark Jackson, and I think he's slower than Jackson.

He's the ideal backup PG, IMO. I'd love him as a combo guard for the MLE. I'm not opposed to adding him to the Pacers. But we would be "settling" for a PG, IMO (just as we "settled" with Ford). In a season or less, we'd be wishing we could still upgrade at that position.

I'm not anti-Hinrich. I'm anti-Hinrich-is-the-solution-we're-looking-for-so-pay-him-the-big-bucks.

[Hicks]

Re: Why is Kirk Hinrich not getting more mention as a Pacers target?

Gilbert Arenas.

Why?

[pacers74]

Re: Why is Kirk Hinrich not getting more mention as a Pacers target?

Gilbert Arenas.

Very bad for PR, and he is a very selfish player.