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BillS
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard... -
Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?
Didn't we do that at the end of training camp? He was clearly going to be out "for a while" at that point.
I don't think I'm a pessimist, I just don't like our backcourt, except for Rush, or our frontcourt, except for Granger and Hibbert.
Lastly, while nobody likes to see a player get injured, I think that many of the predictions every year are inflated because they assume no major, unforseen injury. Even if we could not have predicted that Dunleavy would miss every game so far (except for what, 10 minutes of one preseason game and he still wasn't even practicing when that occurred?), there should be some expectation of occasional injuries to rotation players and even a long-term injury to a rotation player. Everybody has to face that issue.Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you
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Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?
Further, while I like Dunleavy, I don't know that his presence contributes to many incremental wins. Marquis Daniels is no Dunleavy, but he's stepped up in a big way to fill most of the gap statistically (as our team PPG and opponent's PPG are both down slightly from last year). How many more games would this team have won with Dunleavy instead of Daniels? A couple? That's still a 29/30 win pace.Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you
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Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?
"Statistically" isn't our problem. Anyone can put up numbers in this system. It's a wide-open, freelancing, offensive players wet dream.
It's Dunleavy's presence as a reliable ball-handler and offense initiator that we're missing. I'm not going to put a W/L value on what the absence of his presence has caused because I'd obviously just be making it up...But Daniels is what he is: A finisher. He doesn't make anything happen aside from his own points. I'm not criticizing him for that -- it's a fantastic and much-needed component for this team.
But the "closer" and "finishing out games" problem is not something that is helped greatly by Marquis Daniels. His main role in this offense is to find holes in the defense and exploit them. Whether that is through his own penetration or his uncanny ability to make subtle cuts that make him seemingly appear out of nowhere in open space in the paint, it's not something that is a reliable late-game weapon. His skills in finding space could be more of a weapon if we had more able ball-handlers who could dribble and make things happen on the perimeter and then find people adeptly and instantaneously when they found that space, but we really don't. TJ really isn't that guy and seems to have trouble creating passing angles. Danny's improved in that area, but certainly more accustomed to making offense for himself than others still -- and is really still in a catch-and-shoot mindset much of the time. Jack is not a traditional PG and can seemingly only go "north/south" to the hoop and not do any "east/west" stuff that makes the defense react and create new attack angles (he's head of steam to the basket or swing pass to the wing, basically).
Mike, on the other hand, is that guy.
When he gets the ball on the perimeter, he dribbles side to side. He attacks with two dribbles, then pulls back. He slowly meanders above the top of the key then makes two hard dribbles right and throws a ball reversal back to the top of the key. He dribbles to the elbow, picks up his dribble, pivots twice, then finds a guy cutting baseline.
In short, he does a boat load of stuff with the ball in his hands that allows -- nay, forces -- offensive player movement and defender reactions. He "changes the chess board" of where everyone is standing.
No one we have right now playing does any of those things at anywhere nearly the same level. All our offense is perimeter passing and drives/kick-outs. It's predictable and all our ball-handlers are redundant when they try to make something happen -- (1) drive hard at the hoop and either pull up or try to finish at the rim, or (2) get stopped by a second help defender and kick out to the perimeter. No one does the nuanced, stop-and-go, shifty stuff that MDJ does, all of which is stuff that freezes defenders and allows our guys to exploit the space and stagnation that this creates.
If MDJ was here, our end game lineup would almost certainly be TJ/Dun/Quis/Danny/Murphy (or Foster/Rasho at C). Not only would it force teams to play our little man game late, but it would give us two good ball-handlers in TJ and Dun on the perimeter to make things happen, plus Danny and Quis who could each "make something happen for themselves" when things start breaking down, along with Murph/Granger/Dun always spreading the floor for TJ/Daniels penetration or Daniels to find open space for a nice pass/quick finish from (most likely) Dunleavy.
That's the reality as I see it. We miss a lot of the stuff that Mike Dunleavy did for our team. He was our "point forward" all last season. You can talk all you want about how "we have more talent cause we had Diener at point and now have TJ and Jack," but, in actuality, we had Dunleavy and Diener running the offense last year and now we just have one of either TJ or Jack, neither of whom seems to really "get it" yet (not to mention the fact that our talent deficient perimeter often forces them to play together with Jack as SG.)
I'd love to hear what types of plays people think JO'B should be calling in end-game situations when he has TJ/Jack/Quis/Danny/Murph on the floor. Cause, as much as yall want the unproven legend that is Josh McRoberts out there, that's our best lineup. And it's indeed gross. It's mismatched and none of those guys games really complement one another well.
The way I see it is that this offense is built around Mike Dunleavy being prominent. Him and Daniels are not interchangeable and Daniels inspired play this season does not make what MDJ does expendable. They are two players who do completely different things as basketball players.* (These three sentences are really the only main point of this entire thing. if anyone is still reading.)
And even though Danny has evolved over the past 30 games to a point that he's undeniably "better" than Mike Dunleavy ever has been or could be, it still doesn't make a person magically appear on our roster who can do the things that Mike Dunleavy did last season. Frankly, we just don't have one.
So our end game play is the exact same as our mid-2nd Quarter play. We have no "go to" plays. We just play the same way we've been playing all game and hope it works out -- hope someone "makes a play." Danny has shown some ability to lead a pick-and-roll, but not really enough to make it a last play strategy. We've got nothing to go to -- because the only thing we do consistently well is run this offensive system and hope shots go down and drives to the hoop surface. Sometimes it works (Houston, Lakers, Philly) and often it makes us look helpless (pick one).
But I really think it's the best chance we have to win. Unless you wanna start running TJ/Murphy screen/rolls, go to Rasho in the post or clear out 1-4 low for Danny.
And sorry this got retardly long.
* Much like Danny and Pippen, Naptime.Comment
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Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?
JayRedd's post is a credit to his insight, and makes me proud to be a Both Teamster. But this sentence makes me wonder:
Isn't making up the won / lost values of imaginary scenarios what you do for a living? Either way, Henry James would have approved of that phrasology ("the absence of his presence").And I won't be here to see the day
It all dries up and blows away
I'd hang around just to see
But they never had much use for me
In Levelland. (James McMurtry)Comment
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@WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!
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Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?
I don't see the point in firing JOB and I don't see Bird going there anytime soon. Not this season anyways. I agree with those who say he is a placeholder coach and while I probably don't think of him quite as highly as Uncle Buck does, I do think he is a decent NBA coach.
The Pacers are rebuilding and I don't think we will really see the fruits of that rebuilding for another couple years. I do like most of Bird's moves in the past off season and I believe one more solid off season like that will transform the P's back into a legit playoff team in the East. Right now we simply are not a playoff team. We are painfully close though and that is what frustrates the fans here and I do understand that. Being close in the 4th quarter of at least 2/3 of our losses, that just plain sucks. But I really do believe this team is compensating for an overall lack of talent/experience by playing some damn good team basketball and I think you have to give JOB credit for them playing well enough to hang with the likes of Boston, Cleveland and Los Angeles when quite frankly those teams should mop the floor with us.
Now I guess my point of view will be labeled as "making excuses" or being Sally Sunshine but really that isn't the way I think of it. I just feel it is a realistic assessment of the situation. For the first time since the post brawl playoff run in 2005, I feel good about the Pacers. The W/L record isn't there yet but I feel a sense of hope that we are working towards something bigger and better now.........whereas the last 3 years or so, I felt like not even watching a single game because it was the same old crap from the same old cast of bad characters......and I'm talking on the court too, not just off the court stuff.
So there is my nickel, I think I exceeded two cents.
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Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?
In my opinion, JOB is probably not a championship caliber coach...however, I think he is excellent with our young players, teaching them solid fundamentals, getting them into an uptempo game which is the only way they have a chance to win, and it seems every game they play hard and do all they can to win. Sitting on the bench with JOB is Coach Harter, allegedly a defensive specialist...why aren't you calling for his head? JOB is getting everything out of these guys that they have to give....remember, three months ago most of the guys had never played a game together...let alone having to adjust to coachs run and gun style. Finally, look how long it's taken Cleveland, Atlanta, Boston, and Orlando to climb to the top of the Eastern conference...most of their teams were much worse than ours...downright awful...during their rebuilding years. Whether from trades or the draft, we're just one or two strong new players away from getting back to elite status. I think the core of our current team is pretty good and worth keeping.Comment
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Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6And I would put the pasted article in quotes like this.
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