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An epic day for the franchise - Malcolm Brogdon intro press conference

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  • #46
    I've heard conflicting reports about the order of all of this stuff. Here's what I think happened:

    Plan "A" - Brogdon was their top target, but also the one they thought they had the least chance of pulling off.
    Plan "B" - Rubio was their backup plan, and they felt they had a high probability of landing him, and they likely had this all worked out prior and was ready in case Plan A didn't come to fruition, which was likely.

    Then Herb Simon happened, he made the now-famous call to the Bucks and Plan A went from 10% to 90%. They worked out the details, shook hands, and then told Rubio to look elsewhere, so he went to his plan B, which was the Suns. and I want to emphasize for those who still believe our ownership is not in it to win it, just be good. In order for Herb to have done this, Herb must have felt strongly about the impact Malcolm would have on the team and felt it was a move worth going above and beyond for. Herb making this move shows he's not just trying to stay afloat. He's trying to make moves that put us closer to contending.

    I will also say that it sounds like Milwaukee hated getting rid of this guy, but it came down to financials. I think they may have ending up paying the wrong players, but whatever.

    As for the SF position (Bogey and Warren), it was less of a priority in the sense that I get the impression that they already felt they had a starting caliber SF in Warren and so their mindset with Bogey was just a "let's get our PG and then just throw him whatever we can and if someone outbids us, then he can head on out, we already have a really good SF ", and that's what happened. The Pacers threw what they felt they wanted to give Bogey, Utah had their eyes on Bogey all along, swooped in and made a bigger offer, Pacers said, "Alright, good luck." And that is probably the wise move to make in terms of cost/age, as much as I like Bogey.

    I do know that it was announced about Brogdon before Bogey and Rubio were announced, so it backs up my theory.... the reports that came out laying out the opposite, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't get the impression Brogdon was ever a backup plan --- he was their swing-for-the-fences move and the most risky to go after, and they pulled it off.

    I will say, too, that I think their best case scenario occurred, which is really good for us as a franchise not just from a talent perspective, but a management perspective. I think a Brogdon/Warren pairing trumps a Rubio/Bogey pairing. This is the kind of move that has a ripple effect going forward in the sense that credibility in the owner and front office was strengthened throughout the league because they were able to make this deal. High-caliber players want to see that ability in the ownership. Not all front offices have the ability to do it. This will help in the future for Indy shedding it's "flyover country" reputation. It also establishes that they are a management entity capable of hanging with the big boys. Had they just kept their own guy and then filled in with Rubio, I think it would've played into the whole "Pacers gonna Pacers" mentality. This was a big deal in the long term.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 07-09-2019, 12:20 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
      I find KP very articulate and I enjoy listening to him.

      I was just thinking - Pacers still have a big hole in their defense. Small forward defender. I think Warren is a worse defender than Bojan. So I would expect to see Brogdon guard some small forwards when needed - which would open more time for Holiday at the point. We will have to see how Lamb is defensively is he more than adequate?
      I would say that TJ has defended worse than Bogey, but he said in the interview that nobody took things seriously in Phoenix. I will reserve judgement on his defense until I can see what Burke and Nate can do with him.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by kent beckley View Post

        I would say that TJ has defended worse than Bogey, but he said in the interview that nobody took things seriously in Phoenix. I will reserve judgement on his defense until I can see what Burke and Nate can do with him.
        Let's not forget that Bogey had a pretty bad reputation on the defensive side of things before he got here.
        There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
          I've heard conflicting reports about the order of all of this stuff. Here's what I think happened:

          Plan "A" - Brogdon was their top target, but also the one they thought they had the least chance of pulling off.
          Plan "B" - Rubio was their backup plan, and they felt they had a high probability of landing him, and they likely had this all worked out prior and was ready in case Plan A didn't come to fruition, which was likely.

          Then Herb Simon happened, he made the now-famous call to the Bucks and Plan A went from 10% to 90%. They worked out the details, shook hands, and then told Rubio to look elsewhere, so he went to his plan B, which was the Suns. and I want to emphasize for those who still believe our ownership is not in it to win it, just be good. In order for Herb to have done this, Herb must have felt strongly about the impact Malcolm would have on the team and felt it was a move worth going above and beyond for. Herb making this move shows he's not just trying to stay afloat. He's trying to make moves that put us closer to contending.

          I will also say that it sounds like Milwaukee hated getting rid of this guy, but it came down to financials. I think they may have ending up paying the wrong players, but whatever.

          As for the SF position (Bogey and Warren), it was less of a priority in the sense that I get the impression that they already felt they had a starting caliber SF in Warren and so their mindset with Bogey was just a "let's get our PG and then just throw him whatever we can and if someone outbids us, then he can head on out, we already have a really good SF ", and that's what happened. The Pacers threw what they felt they wanted to give Bogey, Utah had their eyes on Bogey all along, swooped in and made a bigger offer, Pacers said, "Alright, good luck." And that is probably the wise move to make in terms of cost/age, as much as I like Bogey.

          I do know that it was announced about Brogdon before Bogey and Rubio were announced, so it backs up my theory.... the reports that came out laying out the opposite, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't get the impression Brogdon was ever a backup plan --- he was their swing-for-the-fences move and the most risky to go after, and they pulled it off.

          I will say, too, that I think their best case scenario occurred, which is really good for us as a franchise not just from a talent perspective, but a management perspective. I think a Brogdon/Warren pairing trumps a Rubio/Bogey pairing. This is the kind of move that has a ripple effect going forward in the sense that credibility in the owner and front office was strengthened throughout the league because they were able to make this deal. High-caliber players want to see that ability in the ownership. Not all front offices have the ability to do it. This will help in the future for Indy shedding it's "flyover country" reputation. It also establishes that they are a management entity capable of hanging with the big boys. Had they just kept their own guy and then filled in with Rubio, I think it would've played into the whole "Pacers gonna Pacers" mentality. This was a big deal in the long term.
          The truth is, four transactions were all relayed over Twitter within 2 minutes by both Shams and Woj:
          1) Bogie to Utah
          2) Brogdon to Indy
          3) Lamb to Indy
          4) Rubio to Phoenix

          ..and all of those literally, came within a 2-3 minute period... so it was clear that all of those transactions were contingent on each other and coordinated.

          Sounds like they were talking with Brogdon's agent a considerable time before free agency began. Of course, no-one is supposed to be doing any of that until the moratorium is lifted, but obviously, no-one actually adheres to that rule anymore.
          Last edited by docpaul; 07-09-2019, 12:29 PM.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by kent beckley View Post

            I would say that TJ has defended worse than Bogey, but he said in the interview that nobody took things seriously in Phoenix. I will reserve judgement on his defense until I can see what Burke and Nate can do with him.
            The one thing that I can honestly say is that I NEVER worry about players' individual defense when they come to Indiana. Burke seems to have a good grasp of defensive philosophies where most players can come in and become net positive defenders. Minus our past small Point Guards (Collison, TJ Ford, Aaron Brooks, etc) and the JOB era, I can't really think of a single player who were a straight-up liability on defense.


            Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

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            • #51
              Originally posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post

              The one thing that I can honestly say is that I NEVER worry about players' individual defense when they come to Indiana. Burke seems to have a good grasp of defensive philosophies where most players can come in and become net positive defenders. Minus our past small Point Guards (Collison, TJ Ford, Aaron Brooks, etc) and the JOB era, I can't really think of a single player who were a straight-up liability on defense.
              Remember Murphy? It'd be interesting to interview Burke about what it was like to be defensive lead under JOB.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post

                Brian and woj explained how everything went down in his podcast, it looks like Bogdanovic/Rubio was plan A but once Utah came out of nowhere with the offer Indiana (in 24 hours according to woj) moved to plan B and that was Brogdon/Lamb.

                If you pay attention to the signings (not many did) as soon as the Bogdonovic thing went down the Rubio domino and the others pieces followed few minutes after that.
                I know that is what has been reported. But I sense that the Pacers would have changed in mid-course to get Brogdon. They didn't think there was much of a chance. When did Simon speak with the Bucks owner? Before or after Bogey was gone.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by docpaul View Post

                  The truth is, four transactions were all relayed over Twitter within 2 minutes by both Shams and Woj:
                  1) Bogie to Utah
                  2) Brogdon to Indy
                  3) Lamb to Indy
                  4) Rubio to Phoenix

                  ..and all of those literally, came within a 2-3 minute period... so it was clear that all of those transactions were contingent on each other and coordinated.

                  Sounds like they were talking with Brogdon's agent a considerable time before free agency began. Of course, no-one is supposed to be doing any of that until the moratorium is lifted, but obviously, no-one actually adheres to that rule anymore.
                  Yep once the Bogdanovic thing went down everything else went through.

                  Getting Brogdon had nothing to do with getting Bogdanovic they could have got Brogdon and wait for Bogdanovic so its obvious to anybody that Rubio/Bogdanovic was plan A, once Bogdanovic was lost they moved to plan B, woj explains this whole deal in detail, he talks about Pacers "panicking" and them coming up with the deal in 24 hours.
                  @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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                  • #54
                    By the way is OK if Brogdon/Lamb was plan B (the young player route) it's way better than whatever they were planning to do around Rubio (who I love) and Bogdanovic, that plan had no future and was just horrible.
                    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                      By the way is OK if Brogdon/Lamb was plan B (the young player route) it's way better than whatever they were planning to do around Rubio (who I love) and Bogdanovic, that plan had no future and was just horrible.
                      I think everyone wants to pretend they understand exactly what happened, but all I care about is the final outcome.. which I'm thrilled with.

                      It feels like Option 1a to me given where we were at this offseason, and that's all that matters.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post

                        Yep once the Bogdanovic thing went down everything else went through.

                        Getting Brogdon had nothing to do with getting Bogdanovic they could have got Brogdon and wait for Bogdanovic so its obvious to anybody that Rubio/Bogdanovic was plan A, once Bogdanovic was lost they moved to plan B, woj explains this whole deal in detail, he talks about Pacers "panicking" and them coming up with the deal in 24 hours.
                        I think Bogey was plan A and the attempt to get Rubio just comports with that, as soon as Bogey was lured away (thanks to Mirotic ditching the NBA), I think KP just went all in to get Brogdon, as he had nothing to lose at that point.

                        Lamb was just there I suppose, and though Iím not a fan I donít mind taking a chance on a guy who was stuck with a dirt franchise. Same with Warren.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                          By the way is OK if Brogdon/Lamb was plan B (the young player route) it's way better than whatever they were planning to do around Rubio (who I love) and Bogdanovic, that plan had no future and was just horrible.
                          I believe Rubio would have flourished with us, career year with the best fit he would ever have had (arguably by far), but Brogdon was the only non-All Star I would have taken over him.

                          Canít wait to see him run out in Pacers uniform...with any luck we could have four All-Stars in our starting lineup.

                          Ooooohhhh Iím almost there....

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by SaintLouisan View Post
                            Ooooohhhh I'm almost there....
                            Think of baseball stats.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by docpaul View Post

                              The truth is, four transactions were all relayed over Twitter within 2 minutes by both Shams and Woj:
                              1) Bogie to Utah
                              2) Brogdon to Indy
                              3) Lamb to Indy
                              4) Rubio to Phoenix

                              ..and all of those literally, came within a 2-3 minute period... so it was clear that all of those transactions were contingent on each other and coordinated.

                              Sounds like they were talking with Brogdon's agent a considerable time before free agency began. Of course, no-one is supposed to be doing any of that until the moratorium is lifted, but obviously, no-one actually adheres to that rule anymore.
                              Which just further validates my sentiment that they had deals lined up for Rubio and had an inkling Bogey was gone. Think about it...what's the chance they learned Bogey and Rubio had turned us down for Utah and Phoenix, and were announced, and so we worked out the Brogdon deal in a minute? The Brogdon deal to me was a much more difficult transaction to work out. They had to have been working on it and putting Rubio on hold.
                              Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 07-09-2019, 09:02 PM.
                              There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post

                                Which just further validates my sentiment that they had deals lined up for Rubio and had an inkling Bogey was gone. Think about it...what's the chance they learned Bogey and Rubio had turned us down for Utah and Phoenix, and were announced, and so we worked out the Brogdon deal in a minute? The Brogdon deal to me was a much more difficult transaction to work out. They had to have been working on it and putting Rubio on hold.
                                Yep, that's what I was trying to help surface alongside you. That's the only valid explanation. Trades don't happen over a 5 minute rush phone call.

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