Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Aaron Holiday

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Aaron Holiday

    What's your take on Aaron Holiday?

    If rumors are to be believed there was some interest around the league leading up to the draft about the availability of Holiday. However, its my understanding the Pacers front office views him as a talent worthy of starting, maybe even playing at an all start level.

    If that is truly the case then it might make sense to bring in a veteran on a short contract until Holiday is ready to play starter minutes. If however they view Holiday as nothing more than a quality bench player then the better route would be to pursue a younger, highly talented starting quality point guard.

    I know there are a dozen variables but could a team win a Championship with Holiday as a starting point guard?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
    What's your take on Aaron Holiday?

    If rumors are to be believed there was some interest around the league leading up to the draft about the availability of Holiday. However, its my understanding the Pacers front office views him as a talent worthy of starting, maybe even playing at an all start level.

    If that is truly the case then it might make sense to bring in a veteran on a short contract until Holiday is ready to play starter minutes. If however they view Holiday as nothing more than a quality bench player then the better route would be to pursue a younger, highly talented starting quality point guard.

    I know there are a dozen variables but could a team win a Championship with Holiday as a starting point guard?
    We would need to see what he can do with extended and consistent # of minutes in the rotation.

    All we have seen of him is in a backup 3rd PG option not only playing behind DC and CoJo but playing as the offguard standing there waiting for the ball to get to him.

    We haven't seen him take a Lead PG role on the floor where he's not only running the offense but a greater role in the offense ( either by creating or scoring ).

    Until we can see that, I have no clue if he's ready or not to take that role. At a minimum, I see him as a backup PG. I hope that he turns out to be all that the other Teams see in him.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    Comment


    • #3
      I say we get the best (talent and youth mix) guard possible this summer. If Holiday is ready later, it's a great problem to have. I think a premier guard or wing is pretty important for this team.

      I like Holiday a lot, and really loved the pick last year, but I don't want to miss out on someone and risk him not getting better. I don't think Pacers are getting Brogdon or Russell anyway, but if they are options, Cers have to go get them.

      Comment


      • #4
        If you can land someone like D'Lo you do that in a heartbeat and adjust using Holiday in the future. If you miss on someone like D'Lo, you move forward with a vet PG with anticipation that Holiday becomes the starting PG in 2020-2021. This year will be very key for Aaron. He will get a good amount of minutes night in and night out to showcase what he can do.
        Pauuuuuuul George for Threeeeeeeeeaaaahhhhhhhh!

        Comment


        • #5
          Russell is the prime target. If you can not get him or another young equivalent guard who you can grow your team with (I don't know who that is other than Russell) then this is where I break with everyone else here.

          You start Aaron Holiday and let him make his mistakes and learn now, when Victor is going to not be the player he is going to be a year from now and you know going into the year you are NOT a contender this season. You tell Nate that unless it looks like it is detrimental to his long term growth you have to let him play through his mistakes. Given that I would just sign either Joseph or Collison (whoever will accept the backup role) and just go with that.

          Bringing in a vet is just an excuse for Nate to not play him and we should not have had that last year let alone this year.


          Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

          Comment


          • #6
            Yea this is an area where KP says one thing and Nate does another. KP drafted Aaron because he was a talented pg that had 3 years of college ball. Supposedly he was ready then you hear coach BS about finding him minutes but Nate will always play a vet over inexperienced players.

            If Aaron or Sumner are ready it needs to proven on the court and the Pacers are not winning a championship next year anyway.

            Comment


            • #7
              One other possibility: Holiday is being shopped or is tentatively included in a package trade for a quality starter, either at PG or one of the other positions.


              "Sumner reminds me of a young Paul George."

              - Clyde Drexler.

              Comment


              • #8
                I mentioned before that we did a disservice to Holiday by not playing him consistent minutes especially after Oladipo went down. Once Oladipo was hurt we became more of a pretender than a contender.

                I think the floor for Holiday will be as a 6th man. averaging between 13-16 ppg. A guy that can come in and provide energy and instant offense. His energy, ability to play through the pick and roll and his ability to shoot off the dribble makes me think that at minimum he will be a good 6th man. I think the big question mark on Holiday is his playmaking. Can Holiday make plays for just himself or will he be able to make plays for others? Until we can answer that questions I don't know if we can answer what the future holds for him.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Peck View Post
                  Russell is the prime target. If you can not get him or another young equivalent guard who you can grow your team with (I don't know who that is other than Russell) then this is where I break with everyone else here.

                  You start Aaron Holiday and let him make his mistakes and learn now, when Victor is going to not be the player he is going to be a year from now and you know going into the year you are NOT a contender this season. You tell Nate that unless it looks like it is detrimental to his long term growth you have to let him play through his mistakes. Given that I would just sign either Joseph or Collison (whoever will accept the backup role) and just go with that.

                  Bringing in a vet is just an excuse for Nate to not play him and we should not have had that last year let alone this year.
                  This. Exactly.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Peck View Post
                    You start Aaron Holiday and let him make his mistakes and learn now
                    This is something I've never gotten, this idea that the only way to learn NBA basketball is to start. In pretty much any other endeavor, putting someone in over their head so they can fail their way into expertise is a ridiculous training method, but somehow in the NBA not only is it preferred but if you don't do it you've stunted the player's growth for life and he'll never ever be any good.

                    We can certainly agree that he should have gotten more consistent minutes off the bench as the third string - I think our rotation was compressed too early last season - but I definitely don't agree that his play was consistently good enough to have earned full rotation minutes.

                    I would be all in favor of having a good point to start ahead of Aaron to give him something to learn from, with him getting constant and consistent minutes as the bench PG. A one-year rental of a PG we want to have Aaron develop as would be an excellent investment.

                    He gets thrown in as a starter without a player like Dipo to succeed with in distribution and suddenly we have a guy who is seen as "trash" and who "obviously can never be the PG for a championship team". Let the guy be successful as the bench point before you drown him in a non-permanent starting lineup.
                    BillS

                    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      They should have traded every veteran at trade deadline and should have given the keys to the young guys so we could have a better idea what they are but Pacers didn't so we are looking at another wasted year.

                      Expect Pacers to do whatever is possible not to give the guy the starting job as they are going to look to sign Jeremy Lin or whoever to fill that position.

                      @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I do not expect Holiday to ever be an allstar player. I just don't see that upside. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

                        In fact who was the Pacers last allstar point guard
                        Last edited by Unclebuck; 06-24-2019, 11:14 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                          In fact who was the Pacers last allstar point guard
                          I think it was Don Buse.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Peck View Post
                            Russell is the prime target. If you can not get him or another young equivalent guard who you can grow your team with (I don't know who that is other than Russell) then this is where I break with everyone else here.

                            You start Aaron Holiday and let him make his mistakes and learn now, when Victor is going to not be the player he is going to be a year from now and you know going into the year you are NOT a contender this season. You tell Nate that unless it looks like it is detrimental to his long term growth you have to let him play through his mistakes. Given that I would just sign either Joseph or Collison (whoever will accept the backup role) and just go with that.

                            Bringing in a vet is just an excuse for Nate to not play him and we should not have had that last year let alone this year.
                            I'm not sure I'd start Holiday, but I certainly wouldn't trade him unless the Pacers got one helluva veteran PG out of the deal. Since I don't see that happening, I think they'd be better off retaining either DC (my preference) or CoJo and letting Holiday be backup PG. I think he performed well enough to earn the B/U-PG role and get more minutes.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Starting --- all depends on the options. If you tell me we can land Russell or Rubio, both whom are clearly more polished at this point, you have Aaron backup. But if you bring in another Collison-level guy, I'd just assume you start Holiday, and let him make mistakes. I think that works more towards the future than bringing in a journeyman and making Aaron ride the pine. Sure, a vet might have a slightly better A/T ratio, but at this point, we're not contending immediately, so why not give Aaron some experience.
                              There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X