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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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Montieth blog

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  • #16
    Re: Montieth blog

    Originally posted by RWB View Post
    There difference is not racial. The difference is people are close to the action on a basketball court. When a fight breaks out it can spill into the stands and involve spectators.

    Auto Racing? Unless a fan jumps down onto the track or get's in the pits are they close.

    Football? You still have to jump onto the playing surface.

    Hockey? Again the fans are shielded from the action.

    Golf and Bowling are the only American sports where the fans are as close to the players.

    That leaves Soccer which get's plenty of bad pub for it's violent behavior. I wonder how much race is a factor in that?


    That is an excellent point and I think your point is a bigger factor than race, but as much as I hate to admit it, I think race is a factor, maybe not the most important factor or certainly the biggest factor.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Montieth blog

      Originally posted by Kegboy View Post


      Anyway, I don't think the unrest is just because we haven't made a move. It's because every day that goes by it looks more like we aren't going to make a move. Wells was on the radio yesterday saying that Tinsley will most probably stay and JO will as well. Then we find out that Rush and Graham have been signed to fully guaranteed contracts, which doesn't jive with the notion of major roster upheaval coming.

      The story was, wait until the draft. Then it was wait until FA season. Now it's wait until the moratorium is lifted. Then it'll be wait until rookies can be traded. Then it'll be wait until KG is traded. Then it'll be wait until camps start. Then it'll be wait until Dec. 15th (when signed players can be traded). Then it'll be wait until the trading deadline. Then it'll be wait until next year.

      It's all quite fustrating.
      I would say, just wait until camps open.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Montieth blog

        Oh, I don't doubt that Bob Hill was high maintenance.

        I think Bob's great quality as an assistant is that the players get to know/ love him.

        I'm not sure that it pans out very well, long term. I think Bob still wants to be the coach they think is on their side when he moves over to the hot seat, but he knows he has to be critical. So he gets caught in no-man's land.

        Its why Bob is generally a great in-season turnaround coach but eventually the luster wears off a couple of seasons later.

        Still not sure how Rick is high maintentance. Unless he's concerned the computers, calculators, and egg timers aren't going to like him.
        Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
        Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
        Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
        Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
        And life itself, rushing over me
        Life itself, the wind in black elms,
        Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Montieth blog

          Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
          That is an excellent point and I think your point is a bigger factor than race, but as much as I hate to admit it, I think race is a factor, maybe not the most important factor or certainly the biggest factor.
          I agree that it is a contributing factor to the media "outrage" that comes out of every fight.

          But, like you say, it is not as high on the list as many others.

          One other major factor that no one ever seems to bring up, however, is that the other team sports have more of a history of fighting. And in hockey and baseball (less so now that the pussification of America has accellerated in the last decade), it is actually somewhat a part of the game. In hockey, you do some scandalous crap like slashing a star player (cough*Gretzky*cough) and you know full well you're gonna get punched on your next shift. In baseball, if you back a guy off the plate too many times by going high-and-tight and the other team's pitcher retaliates later by hitting a batter, there is a good chance the benches are clearing.

          Both of these are historically ingrained components of the games themselves. Football doesn't have this "ingrained" component as much as the other two, but surely, fights are more apt to break out in a sport this violent and with this many piles in the trenches where people can do all sorts of messed up stuff. In basketball, there's never really a cause to fight. I mean, occasionally, there clearly is, but it's always somebody "went too far."

          The whole notion that the Knicks/Denver fight got more media play than that Florida State one with dudes swinging helmets at each other should be enough to prove that point.

          It's just not acceptable in basketball (high school and college too, which often have more white dudes) as it is in any of the other majors (and hockey ), so it causes more outrage.
          Last edited by JayRedd; 07-10-2007, 01:41 PM.
          Read my Pacers blog:
          8points9seconds.com

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          @8pts9secs

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          • #20
            Re: Montieth blog

            Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
            I would really like to know how Rick was high maintenance and also Bob Hill. I know Brown was and Versace really was also.
            i thought i was the only one confused by that. problem is, montieth doesn't make clear what he means by "high maintenance"

            now larry brown, i guess everyone would agree that he is high maintenance. a coach who constantly lobbies for trades, calls out players through the press, etc, doesn't make for a smooth working environment. and yet he's a pretty successful coach, so i guess being high maintenance isn't necessarily bad.

            rick though? what's the story there? that he wears out the players? i thought every coach does that (hence bird's 3 year rule)

            one thing for sure, obie has better "people skills" than rick, especially when it comes to winning over sportswriters

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Montieth blog

              Originally posted by Jay View Post
              Oh, I don't doubt that Bob Hill was high maintenance.
              The best groomed coach in all of professional sports not high maintenance? I think not!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Montieth blog

                Rick, from what we've heard from media outlets other than The Star and Pacers.com, has absolutely terrible interpersonal/ relationship skills. I've never really thought of that as "high maintenance" though. But I guess he's saying that everybody else has to work really, really, really hard to figure out how to get along with him.
                Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                And life itself, rushing over me
                Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Montieth blog

                  I'm just odd I guess, but the way many of you get all riled up and angered at Kravitz is exactly how I feel about Montieth and his writing.

                  Condescending is the only word that comes to my mind whenever I read his views on the team and it's fans.

                  I grow oh so tired of his annual summer writings of how all fans are just idiotic reactionary's who need his calming sage wisdom to make sure we understand that at the center of it all Donnie Walsh is there to sooth our troubled brow.

                  How every other sports writer, anchor, radio person is just a hype driven machine and does nothig but fan the flames of the reactionary fans, but the bunny is the one shining light in this sea of torment. If we would only put our faith in Donnie, Jesus and himself (in that order I might add) we would all be saved.

                  All that was missing from this blog was his usual and customary statement of "don't make trades for the sake of trades" for this to be one of his pulitzer prize winning articles.


                  Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Montieth blog

                    Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                    I would really like to know how Rick was high maintenance and also Bob Hill. I know Brown was and Versace really was also.
                    the rick comment seemed like another post-firing cheapshot to me. i don't doubt rick's interpersonal skills are lacking, but mark directly follows that point with...

                    Some of the high-maintenance coaches performed well for stretches, but they tend to wear out the players. They also make life more difficult for the front office, either by refusing to deal with the distractions or by causing them.
                    rick wanted ron traded but was told to coach the rest of the team that TPTB would handle ron. who ignored or did not properly deal with the distraction in this case? criticize his poor interpersonal skills, or maybe not being a disciplinarian, or an often uncreative offense that relied too heavily on JO (although TPTB didn't give him many options last year)... but i don't think you could say rick really ignored major distractions. and rick isn't larry brown or isiah thomas or george karl... so i can't see him really creating distractions.
                    This is the darkest timeline.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Montieth blog

                      Originally posted by RWB View Post
                      That leaves Soccer which get's plenty of bad pub for it's violent behavior. I wonder how much race is a factor in that?
                      No it doesn't. It gets talked about, but ultimately it's a running joke to have soccer hooligans, etc. I'd say the US apathy toward soccer still sits squarely on it being a boring, snobbish, elitist sport. I don't think most people soccer as more violent than the NBA, at least in terms of incidents (rather than the physical nature of the sport itself).

                      And the issue for me is that almost every soccer riot/violent act goes WAY past even the Brawl. Get back to me when flares are thrown at NBA players and loud racial chants are launched down on them.

                      Bird mixed it up plenty of times, Laimbeer made a habit of it it seemed. Heck even Detlef got tossed for his dust up with Ewing. Somehow that was "boys will be boys".

                      But when Jackson won't leave the court quickly it's outrageous and out of control??!?! It makes me sick having grown up watching Billy Martin and Earl Weaver. They could kick dirt, scream spit-flying filth in an umps face, throw anything they could find onto the field, flop around on the ground, and so on and it was just a big laugh and part of the game. Heck, it was ENDEARING, people loved Weaver for his antics, just as Lou is popular now for his.

                      Imagine Weaver being asked to leave the court like Jackson in Oakland and having his tirade instead of Jack yelling at the ref as he walked the isle to the exit door (center court, had to go around scorers table). Towels on the floor, Gatorade cups, probably the jug too, he'd probably grab the sweat mop and mock clean the floor and the refs shoes just to be a jerk. Would any announcer react in horror to the disgraceful behavior and thuggery?

                      I know better because I've seen it overlooked way too many times. In fact I'd say plenty of NBA coaches have gotten away with stuff easily as bad as what got Jackson that big fine for not "leaving quickly enough"...which took all of about 2 minutes max, if that.


                      It might not just be race, but it's something. There is some new perception that cranks up the sensitivity to NBA players behavior now when it didn't used to be that way, not even close in fact.

                      Frankly I think that's very specifically why Maxwell didn't have fans trying to kill him and why Stern gave him so few games compared to Artest just 10 years later.
                      Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 07-10-2007, 02:47 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Montieth blog

                        Originally posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
                        .. so i can't see him really creating distractions.
                        Or as Montieth points out having the teeth to eliminate problems as well.
                        You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Montieth blog

                          Originally posted by Sh4d3 View Post
                          To be fair, the Colts won a title last season, while the Pacers were a lottery team. Not improving on a lottery team = BAD, no matter how you look at it.

                          Add to that that other lottery teams have improved, and it's gets REALLY bad.
                          You are the perfect example of what MM is talking about. We are still 3 months away from training camp. Plenty of time to improve the roster or better position ourself for the near future.

                          Why do you people feel a trade had to happen the first two weeks trades are allowed? When there are still 10-12 weeks to go before camp starts? It makes no sense to me. If we have not made any changes come camp in October then gripe about not improving. To do so now is literally jumping the gun and just griping for the sake of griping.

                          Reminds me of all those folks crying about the Colts last year. Folks were premature with their tears then too.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Montieth blog

                            Sorry Peck, but I agree with Mark on this one. At least where Bob is concerned it is just ridiculously too early to flip out on the lack of moves, and Mark does provide quality data to support it.

                            I doubt the rumor that the Pacers were thinking of trading into the late first round was BS, they just missed their chance to get what they wanted. That's looking to make moves but refusing to make a bad one just for the sake of doing something.

                            Unless you loved the Al deal you can't pretend to not understand the fear of making moves just to do something.

                            OTOH I realize Kegboy is right when he says that the concern is growing as signs point to them having to stand pat. I think that's directly where this is headed, but I was mad about them getting into this situation months ago when they made that GS trade.

                            I think you guys are seeing now why I was so upset then. Everyone was so happy to see Jackson gone that they were overlooking the fact that as a move it pushed them more into a financial corner, rather than opening things up for changes.

                            Right now we see what being stuck looks like. It stinks. But I was already ticked off when they got into this position months ago. So Mark is right to say "calm down, hold on, just be rational" and Kegoy is right to say "well it's not looking like things are going to get fixed anytime soon".

                            They probably aren't, so let's just be rational about that too. It doesn't seem rational to me to expect some magical change that will make next season any less unpleasant, barring just a total turnaround by the entire roster thanks to JOB.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Montieth blog

                              We're crying because TPTB has came out and said they aren't going to use the MLE.

                              They also said that they were going to be involved on draft day, and that involvement had them switching 2nd picks for a guy properly named Stanko.

                              Do we expect them to bring in superstars and totally change the direction of the team? Hell no, that's unrealistic. But what we do expect is them showing that they're working on improving the team. Saying they're not going to be active in free agency, not being active in the draft shows they'd rather go back to camp with the same **** poor roster.

                              EDIT: YES! It came back around to the GS trade!! HOORAY! The team prior to the GS sucked just as bad. Who cares if they made the playoffs and then would have been bounced 4 games in? It would continue to give the false sense of security that they were close and just needed tweaking because "HEY WE MADE THE PLAYOFFS."

                              If I'm stuck rooting for a lousy team, I'd rather be stuck watching guys that didn't have court dates to worry about than watching players who kept showing up on the police arrest records.
                              Last edited by Since86; 07-10-2007, 03:06 PM.
                              Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Montieth blog

                                Originally posted by Robobtowncolt View Post
                                Sweet, only 400 more members to go.
                                2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                                2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                                2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

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