Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss
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Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss
If you pay attention to watching the game, your eyes will tell you all you need to know without having to pour through a bunch of stats.
Stats can be manipulated to say whatever a person wants them to say.
Basketball is not a complicated game. People just try to make it more complicated than it is.Comment
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Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss
Whenever I read about how good a defender Lance is, the game vs the Kings in January comes to mind.
http://on.nba.com/1qpIF3q 11:45 - First play of the game. Lance gets screened by a half-assed screen by Jason Thompson and Thornton missed a open jumper.
http://on.nba.com/1qpJLfz 11:14 - Lance standing around and watching Thornton go to the rim and get a 1 ft tip in.
http://on.nba.com/1qpKnlt 10:17 - Lance getting picked by Jason Thompson and Thornton hitting a jump shot.
http://on.nba.com/1qpKIo8 9:49 - Lance going under a pick and Thornton missing an open 3 pointer.
http://on.nba.com/1qpNb26 8:21 - Lance playing follow the leader with Thornton around a couple of picks and Thornton making a real nice running hook.
http://on.nba.com/1qpNKZN 6:26 - Lance sticking to an Aaron Gray pick like they were both wearing velcro and Thornton making a corner 3.
After that, Lance got switched to covering Outlaw. Hey, I get it. Thornton is a good offensive player. But there were just too many nights like this where Lance just got stuck on every pick or played follow the leader around picks for him to be an above average defender. I think Zach watched him vs LeBron and extrapolated his defense a little.Comment
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Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss
Lance also was a net overall positive when you include the ortg. I doubt he would have had a negative drtg if he hadn't played with Turner. I don't think it was negative last year. Scola was only a little bit negative.
I think the only meaningful comparison is Granger at +7.9 drtg to Turner at -7.7. That seems like a really big swing for what should have been the same place in the rotation.
For those of us who prefer to just watch the game, can you tell us what ortg and drtg mean?Comment
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Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss
Offensive rating and defensive rating. Not particularly reliable statistics.
Analytics in basketball are pretty much crap. Far behind baseball and football. It seems every other day someone comes out with a new stat that either doesn't reveal anything new or completely misrepresents what it's trying to calculate.Last edited by Kstat; 07-19-2014, 04:56 PM.
It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.
Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004Comment
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Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss
Statistical data is not manipulated by personal biases that easily.Originally posted by IrishPacer
Empty vessels make the most noise.Comment
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Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss
Whenever I read about how good a defender Lance is, the game vs the Kings in January comes to mind.
http://on.nba.com/1qpIF3q 11:45 - First play of the game. Lance gets screened by a half-assed screen by Jason Thompson and Thornton missed a open jumper.
http://on.nba.com/1qpJLfz 11:14 - Lance standing around and watching Thornton go to the rim and get a 1 ft tip in.
http://on.nba.com/1qpKnlt 10:17 - Lance getting picked by Jason Thompson and Thornton hitting a jump shot.
http://on.nba.com/1qpKIo8 9:49 - Lance going under a pick and Thornton missing an open 3 pointer.
http://on.nba.com/1qpNb26 8:21 - Lance playing follow the leader with Thornton around a couple of picks and Thornton making a real nice running hook.
http://on.nba.com/1qpNKZN 6:26 - Lance sticking to an Aaron Gray pick like they were both wearing velcro and Thornton making a corner 3.
After that, Lance got switched to covering Outlaw. Hey, I get it. Thornton is a good offensive player. But there were just too many nights like this where Lance just got stuck on every pick or played follow the leader around picks for him to be an above average defender. I think Zach watched him vs LeBron and extrapolated his defense a little.
Edit: before BnG or anyone else misconstrues my words, I think Lance is a pretty good on ball defender when he puts in the effortLast edited by Ace E.Anderson; 07-19-2014, 05:15 PM.Comment
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Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss
Offensive rating and defensive rating. Not particularly reliable statistics.
Analytics in basketball are pretty much crap. Far behind baseball and football. It seems every other day someone comes out with a new stat that either doesn't reveal anything new or completely misrepresents what it's trying to calculate.Comment
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Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss
It's like jvg's point about statistical "data" deciphering PnR defense. Some teams don't even run PnRs for the direct purpose of scoring a basket. So how are you supposed to grade that?
Shot charts are the worst. If the entire nba was a standstill shooting contest, then maybe they would be valid.
Basketball analytics is in it's infancy and most of the formulas out there are garbage that don't indicate what they promise.Last edited by Kstat; 07-19-2014, 05:55 PM.
It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.
Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004Comment
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Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss
I suppose if you are watching the game with the intent to pounce on every mistake by a particular player you likely have a point. But if you are watching it out of the pleasure of the game you should have no biases.Comment
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Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss
And that's exactly why ORTG and DRTG shouldn't be used to measure an individual player. They are a team stat and it's a mistake when people use them as an individual stat, imo.Last edited by Nuntius; 07-19-2014, 07:07 PM.Originally posted by IrishPacer
Empty vessels make the most noise.Comment
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Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss
Appreciate the reply, but we'll just have to disagree.
I suppose if you are watching the game with the intent to pounce on every mistake by a particular player you likely have a point. But if you are watching it out of the pleasure of the game you should have no biases.Originally posted by IrishPacer
Empty vessels make the most noise.Comment
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Last edited by cgg; 07-19-2014, 07:05 PM."Danny Granger is one of the top players in the league. To move Danny, you better get a lot back." - Larry BirdComment
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