Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

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  • CJ Jones
    Member
    • Jan 2012
    • 9259

    #16
    Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    I don't know how you can read this and not come to the conclusion that he thinks this is a serious downgrade. Of course he's gonna leave himself an out, but he clearly thinks this team will have serious issues in the playmaking department. Also, the stat about having the 3rd lowest field goal attempts in the paint is absolutely pathetic for a power post team, and we just let our best player at attacking the paint walk lol.

    Feel free to spin it however you want though.

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    • rock747
      Member
      • Dec 2007
      • 12526

      #17
      Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

      If we just had a PG we would be in a lot better shape. Too bad we couldn't have worked something out with Lance and acquire one.
      "We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.

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      • Grimp
        Member
        • May 2013
        • 12423

        #18
        Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

        Originally posted by rock747
        If we just had a PG we would be in a lot better shape. Too bad we couldn't have worked something out with Lance and acquire one.
        I feel the FO is gonna get us a new PG before the season starts. And one of our bigs will be replaced as well. If they can pull that off, and you add in Miles and Paul George we are still contenders.

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        • BlueCollarColts
          Member
          • Oct 2012
          • 9569

          #19
          Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

          Originally posted by Mourning
          And our courtvision and our ability to actually deliver the ball quickly and accurately? What do you think about that part of the equation for next season?
          I don't think that should be a problem, Lance and PG were the worst at that from simply trying to be too fancy with it. Lance is gone now, and PG is young and will improve in that area.

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          • BlueCollarColts
            Member
            • Oct 2012
            • 9569

            #20
            Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

            Originally posted by Grimp
            I feel the FO is gonna get us a new PG before the season starts. And one of our bigs will be replaced as well. If they can pull that off, and you add in Miles and Paul George we are still contenders.
            Grimp we could be 50-1 and you would still feel a trade is coming.

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            • Mourning
              All is full of Orange!
              • Jan 2004
              • 9961

              #21
              Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

              Originally posted by presto123
              Pacers offense delivered the ball quickly and accurately? What team were you watching?
              You might want to read my post again before getting snarky.

              I never wrote we were good passing the ball quickly and accurately this past season, but you can always get worse... and without a significant retooling of our disastrous offense of the past seasons, which I doubt will happen btw, I struggle to see how exactly we will get better offensively when our starting PG is vulnerable to intense pressure, isn't (as far as I know) a very good entry passer (in an offense where that pass is important next to the PF getting the ball at the top of the key and working from there), and IMHO now wont have another ball-handler in the starting line up to whom he might pass and have a decent chance of atleast something decent happening offensively.

              You thought Lance was terrible as a ball-handler, but I think PG is much worse and he will likely be asked to do more of just that, while at the sametime expending huge mounts of energy beying the primary option on both offense and defense. I don't see that working longterm either, because he is good, but he is not LeBron and I think the burden and expectations we are putting on his shoulders will become too big and I think he will be fighting fatigue more and more especially with now Lance gone, but also our PFs, who are important passers in our offense, getting pretty old, meaning a lesser role on the short and longterm.
              Last edited by Mourning; 07-17-2014, 06:40 PM.
              2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

              2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

              2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

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              • BlueCollarColts
                Member
                • Oct 2012
                • 9569

                #22
                Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

                Originally posted by Mourning
                You might want to read my post again before getting snarky. I never wrote we were good passing the ball quickly and accurately this past season, but you can always get worse... and without a significant retooling of our disastrous offense of the past seasons, which I doubt will happen btw, I struggle to see how exactly we will get better offensively when our starting PG is vulnerable to intense pressure, isn't (as far as I know) a very good entry passer (in an offense where that pass is important next to the PF getting the ball at the top of the kwy and working from there), and IMHO now wont have another ball-handler in the line up to whom he might pass and have a decent chane of atleast something decent happening offensively.
                Here is the thing, Lance is a ball stopper and there is no doubting that, what if we improve our offense by inserting a shooter and ball mover like Miles into the starting line-up? I wouldn't say Hill is a bad post entry passer either.

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                • Ace E.Anderson
                  Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 18261

                  #23
                  Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

                  Originally posted by Mourning
                  Consider me worried about our allready pretty bad ball-handling taking another step back and us becoming (much) more vulnerable when opposing teams increase the pressure on our ball-handlers , aswell as trapping them.

                  Complain about Lance beying a ballhog, he is, all you want aswell as his TO's, but he OTOH was pretty damn good when facing intense pressure and keeping the ball.

                  So, PG, besides beying our primary offensive and defensive player with IMHO too much ball-handling duties allready this pastseason probably gets even more ball-handling duties now. Swell... Lets burn our starplayer out even more and btw increase the probability/chance of him suffering a major injury in the process.
                  Okay I wish we would dispell this myth that G. Hill turns the ball over. During the 2013 Playoffs series against the the Pacers turned the ball over 111 times. Hill had 14 of them. Hardly a guy that coughs it up under pressure.

                  This year against the Heat he had 9 the entire series.

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                  • Mourning
                    All is full of Orange!
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 9961

                    #24
                    Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

                    Originally posted by BlueCollarColts
                    Here is the thing, Lance is a ball stopper and there is no doubting that, what if we improve our offense by inserting a shooter and ball mover like Miles into the starting line-up? I wouldn't say Hill is a bad post entry passer either.
                    I really think he is. I never said Lance wasn't a ballhog btw. OTOH why would Lance be incapable of improving elements of his game like other players do, while he is still young and has only two starting seasons behind him, in one of which he played a relatively limited role on offense?
                    Last edited by Mourning; 07-18-2014, 06:49 AM. Reason: annoying spelling error...
                    2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                    2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                    2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

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                    • dal9
                      Can see thru wooden doors
                      • Dec 2007
                      • 17878

                      #25
                      Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

                      Originally posted by Ace E.Anderson
                      Okay I wish we would dispell this myth that G. Hill turns the ball over. During the 2013 Playoffs series against the the Pacers turned the ball over 111 times. Hill had 14 of them. Hardly a guy that coughs it up under pressure.

                      This year against the Heat he had 9 the entire series.
                      didn't we basically take the ball out of his hands, tho?

                      Comment

                      • CJ Jones
                        Member
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 9259

                        #26
                        Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

                        Originally posted by Ace E.Anderson
                        Okay I wish we would dispell this myth that G. Hill turns the ball over. During the 2013 Playoffs series against the the Pacers turned the ball over 111 times. Hill had 14 of them. Hardly a guy that coughs it up under pressure.

                        This year against the Heat he had 9 the entire series.
                        It's not turnovers that are the problem, it's that he struggles getting us into offensive sets. That's the reason Vogel had Lance handling the ball against Miami in the conference finals, most likely.

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                        • BlueCollarColts
                          Member
                          • Oct 2012
                          • 9569

                          #27
                          Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

                          Originally posted by Mourning
                          I really think he is. I never said Lance was a ballhog btw. OTOH why would Lance be incapable of improving elements of his game like other players do, while he is still young and has only two starting seasons behind him, ine of which in which he played a relatively limited role on offense?
                          He could improve, but my focus is on this team and how WE AS A TEAM can improve, not if Lance can. Lance can improve in Charlotte all he wants, we lost him here in Indy, so i'm focusing on how we can improve from this past season, and Lance improving individually has nothing to do with that.

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                          • Mourning
                            All is full of Orange!
                            • Jan 2004
                            • 9961

                            #28
                            Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

                            Originally posted by Ace E.Anderson
                            Okay I wish we would dispell this myth that G. Hill turns the ball over. During the 2013 Playoffs series against the the Pacers turned the ball over 111 times. Hill had 14 of them. Hardly a guy that coughs it up under pressure.

                            This year against the Heat he had 9 the entire series.
                            And how much did he create in those series? Im not simply talking about assists, but how active he was or better the lack there off? How often did he actually touch the ball and how often did he actually not just pass the ball from where it came? How quick was he setting up our, gulp, offense? I don't know the answers, but I have serious reservations about all those parameters with Hill. Simply put: I want Hill to be our starting SG where he belongs or as a 6th man. I like him a lot, but not as our starting PG. Never have and probably never will.
                            2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                            2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                            2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

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                            • BlueNGold
                              Banned
                              • Aug 2005
                              • 32249

                              #29
                              Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

                              I don't hear a lot of disappointment or gnashing of teeth coming from the players, coaches, owners or even Larry Bird about losing Lance. That tells me the TEAM is overall fine with seeing him go which says a whole lot. I think Bird was his greatest supporter and even he had issues with him. I think coaches were torn about bringing him back but with all that good there was an equal part bad. Chemistry, in the end, is more important than talent when the chemistry otherwise is bad

                              So, while I have been a strong Lance Stephenson supporter, no player is more important than the team and the last thing we need is one player ruining the Paul George era. It's really a great shame because he was in a perfect situation in Indy...an extremely good match with Paul George. I completely disagree with all this talk of the ball stopping with him as-if he could not possibly learn how to move it better. I do agree he pounded the air out of it some, but I don't think he was much different than all the other players.

                              Personally, I am disappointed we lost that great of a talent. But I know there is a very good chance we are better off without him.

                              Comment

                              • Ace E.Anderson
                                Member
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 18261

                                #30
                                Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

                                Originally posted by CJ Jones
                                It's not turnovers that are the problem, it's that he struggles getting us into offensive sets. That's the reason Vogel had Lance handling the ball against Miami in the conference finals, most likely.
                                His usage was 16.4 and Lance was at 18.2. There wasnt as big of a difference as you'd think.

                                I think the biggest difference is that Hill tries to wait for the post player (Roy) get position, or waits for the West to set the screen. Our off the ball decisiveness is just as much to blame for our struggles against defensive pressure.

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