The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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"Quarterbacks on 3rd Down and Long"

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  • "Quarterbacks on 3rd Down and Long"

    So this article is one that I would suggest people who think Luck is not on the level of RGIII as far as play this season. Even though there is more than this that goes into play this should be considered as well. I think one of the biggest factors that has to be taken into account is what they actually do in the game, and honestly that is hard to put in stats, QBR tries to do it but many don't like that, but anyways take a look at this column from and let me know what you think.

    Quarterbacks on Third Down: Andrew Luck is a Magician
    Written by Kyle Rodriguez on Thursday, 06 December 2012 02:30.
    Many people have said this year that Andrew Luck's year has been special. It has been.

    Many people have said that Andrew Luck's traditional stats are lacking. They are.

    How do we reconcile that? How has Luck been so special if his traditional stats simply aren't that good? Well, as much smarter people have said before me, this is a case in which the traditional stats are not telling the story accurately. The vertical offense, the lack of talent around him, and the sheer magnitude of the responsibility he bears cannot be told through traditional stats, nor advanced metrics. He truly is a player that must be seen to be understood.

    But not every stat paints Luck as a bottom ten quarterback in the NFL. In fact, some of the very important, telling stats tell us the exact opposite.

    One such statistic that is not widely available is 3rd down conversion percentage. When a quarterback absolutely needs to get yards to keep a drive moving, can he get them? Well, from what I've seen from Andrew Luck, I'd say he's pretty darn good on third down. So I used Pro-Football-Reference's handy-dandy game-play finder, threw out any spikes or kneel-downs, and ran the numbers for every starting quarterback in the league.

    The results surprised even me.

    First, let's look at the simple numbers: Quarterbacks passing on third/fourth downs. (click to enlarge)

    Some notables here:

    Obviously, Andrew Luck at 7th in the league is pretty remarkable for a rookie quarterback. Look at the other rookie quarterbacks: Wilson- 15th, Foles- 23, RG3- 25, Weeden- 28, Tannehill- 31. ALL of the rest of the top 10 are seasoned veterans.
    Tom Brady converting more than 50% of his third downs is pretty remarkable. As a Colts fan, it pains me to say it, but that's ridiculous.
    Oh hi Peyton, it's nice to have you back in football.
    One reason why the Packers have struggled: Aaron Rodgers was exactly 50% on third downs last season, this season he's dropped a little.
    Jay Cutler doesn't look bad at 14th, just over 40%. But he doesn't look great either. Of course, when you take into account that Jason Campbell is 2-20 on third downs this year, you understand why Chicago is relieved to have Cutler back in the lineup.
    Jacksonville quarterbacks are bad and should feel bad.
    People thought Joe Flacco was going to "take the next step" this season. He hasn't. He's in the company of Mark Sanchez, Kevin Kolb, and Brandon Weeden.
    So far, Colin Kaepernick has been a little bit better than Alex Smith on 3rd down. Not a ton, but enough to matter.
    Michael Vick actually was converting 3rd downs at a decent rate. If only he could have stopped embracing defenders in the backfield and throwing the ball to their teammates.
    Spikes are excluded in this data. So far this season, there have only been three spikes on third or fourth down, which makes sense. Luck had one (against Buffalo), as well as Roethlisberger and Palmer.
    Now, this doesn't take into account runs/scrambles. So, for mobile quarterbacks, that's a big part of their game that we're missing. We're missing the ELECTRIC factor! So, here is how adding rushes and scrambles to the totals changes things:

    Notes here:

    I highlighted the top six running quarterbacks on third down. The ones in green benefited heavily from the addition of runs, the ones in red did not. Luck was the most efficient with his runs (82%), then Newton (61%), Wilson (55%), Griffin (50%), Freeman (46%), and finally Vick (41%).
    Aaron Rodgers also moves up quite a bit with the running, although he still is about 5% short of last seasons' mark.
    The least efficient runners on third down, with at least five carries? Fitzpatrick (29%), Sanchez (33%), Ponder (38%), and Kaepernick (40%).
    These numbers do not include kneeldowns, in case you were wondering. Aaron Rodgers and Jay Cutler are the only quarterbacks with three, the rest have two or less.
    Now, this is all fine and dandy, but what I'm really interested in is how quarterbacks fare when passing on long 3rd downs, which is generally defined as eight yards to go or more. So, for that, I go back to the handy-dandy PFR game play finder.

    This is where things start to get interesting.


    Andrew Luck is beyond anything we've ever seen as a rookie. Scott Kacsmar pretty much said this yesterday, and now I'm saying it (solely relying on Scott's wonderfully brilliant historical/statistical knowledge). There is no reason why he should be second in the league. And it's not just because he's built like Big Ben. Roethlisberger (who is now known for his ability to make big plays on third down) was just 9 of 51 on long third downs during his rookie year.
    That being said, the big bodied, athletic quarterbacks like Roethlisberger and Luck succeed partially because their body type allows them to create things. Against Detroit, there were two separate plays where Luck literally just bounced off of defensive tackles. It was great.
    Peyton Manning used to be the king of this stat. I did a little bit of research into this last season, and it was clear that Manning was the unquestioned king of long third downs, among active quarterbacks (Roethlisberger was second, I believe). 2010 was one of his worst years in a long time, and even then he was 36%, which would be third in the league this year.
    That being said, he's clearly struggling there this season. We all think that his arm must be fine, since he's playing fantastically. But, there's no question that he's older, and not as strong in that arm. I think that shows here.
    Kaepernick may have Smith beat in 3rd downs overall, but Smith crushes him on long third downs. Interesting conundrum for the 49ers.
    This is why Henne brings something to the table for Jacksonville. His 26% vs Gabbert's 16% is very significant.
    Robert Griffin III is downright awful on long third downs. Terribly, horribly, putridly awful. Just 5 conversions all year. To put this in perspective, Blaine Gabbert more than doubled Griffin's conversion rate during his rookie year (22%). To put this into even more perspective, Curtis Painter's rate from 2011 triples Griffin's 2012 rate. Here are a few more things that are better than RG3 on long third downs: oatmeal raisin cookies, The Phantom Menace, this guy, any movie with Shaq in it, and public buses.
    Again, before any Washington fans get hissy, I did do a chart that includes rushes, and yes, it helps RG3.

    Yeah, it helps RG3 move all the way up to 2nd worst! Seriously though, Griffin's numbers on third and long are fascinatingly bad, and if it wasn't for the rushes, they'd be historically bad.

    Andrew Luck is an alien. I don't think he belongs with the rest of us on earth. We knew that he was really special for a rookie, but this goes beyond that. Leading the league in long third downs as a rookie? Unreal. One of the most incredible things about Luck is how intelligent he is. He doesn't scramble unless he thinks he can get it. He's converted four out of five long third downs with his legs, the best ratio for quarterbacks with multiple attempts on the ground. Meanwhile, Griffin is six of fifteen, Freeman is one of six, and Vick is one of eight.
    Locker is up there by virtue of not having many attempts, and then having a very good run ratio (tied Luck with 4 of 5). If you just look at his pass numbers, he's 22nd, which makes more sense.
    Fitzpatrick is a little surprising, as is Cassel, but there rest isn't all that different than we would expect.
    Luck not only leads the league, but is the only rookie inside the top 15: Foles-18, Wilson- 22, Kaepernick- 31, Weeden- 34, Tannehill- 35, and RG3- 37.
    Look, 3rd downs and long 3rd downs are not the only part of quarterbacking. Afterall, the quarterback is often a part of the reason why the team is in a long third down in the first place. Nevertheless, teams WILL get in those scenarios occasionally, and it's important for a team to be able to trust their quarterback, even in situations when the defense knows what's coming.

    When it comes to the Colts, opposing defenses know what's going to happen. The ball is going to be in Andrew Luck's hands.

    The only question is: Can you stop him?

    So far, the answer has been no.
    Why so SERIOUS