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2018-2019 Colts Regular Season Thread

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  • Why not sign Dez Bryant? I don't get it. There is nothing to lose.

    Comment


    • You aren't going to win most of the time if you turn the ball over 4 times. That being said there were some mind numbing drops as well. Luckily the rest of the division isn't that great so they aren't out of it either.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by BornIndy View Post
        Why not sign Dez Bryant? I don't get it. There is nothing to lose.
        Nothing to win, either. We aren’t winning the super bowl with or without Dez.

        Counterpoint to myself: it’s definitely harder to build a winning culture when you lose every week. And out receiving group is pretty weak and could certainly use a reliable target or two.
        You're caught up in the Internet / you think it's such a great asset / but you're wrong, wrong, wrong
        All that fiber optic gear / still cannot take away the fear / like an island song

        - Jimmy Buffett

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Suaveness View Post
          You know what's crazy? The rest of the AFC South is likely to be 3-3 after the weekend. Even at 1-5 we're only 2 games from 1st. What a trash division, and we're sitting at the bottom.

          Ballard drafted well this year. But my issue with him is why not spend a little money on FAs? Not that we need some pro bowl caliber player, but at least try to fill some gaps, even if they are 1-2 year contracts. It's not going to mess with chemistry or youth movement, but rather field a competitive team. We're so hurt that our backups are outclassed each week.
          I know that Rome wasn’t built in a day, but this is still a pretty bad roster for Ballrd to field with two years under his belt now. It’s just inexplicable how any NFL team can foster a WR corps this bad when talent seems to grow on trees and the rules favor receivers.

          I know I make this point all the time, but for almost 12 years we’ve had downright abysmal roster building while also seeming to be full of injuries every season.

          This season is over. I hope they don’t find a way to weasel out a 6-10 or 7-9 record to screw the draft position up. I want that super high pick this year now that we clearly see this team just totally sucks. This is a way worse roster than 2011. The 2011 team would have won several games If they merely had a “bad” quarterback. Unfortunately, they had some of the worst QBing in league history with Painter and Collins. Those guys were light years beyond bad.

          This is probably overreacting because like I said, I know Rome wasn’t built in a day, but I’ve just mentally prepared myself that the 2012-14 period might be as good as the Luck era ever gets. We just seem so far away from merely duplicating that 3 year stretch, let alone anything beyond it.
          Last edited by Sollozzo; 10-15-2018, 01:19 PM.

          Comment


          • I'm willing to see what happens as the season progresses and the next off season.
            My gut tells me we overachieved in Luck's first year and lost out on what should've been a second high pick, and then Grigson screwed the pooch with the subsequent roster moves and sowing seeds of discontent along the way. And then there will always be the question of Ariens vs Pagano and whether Pagano ultimately got too much rope (and time as HC).

            I'm not sure how we can have a receiving corps quite this bad with drops. I thinks it's grown into a mental thing at this point. I also wonder if it's a symptom of Luck's offseason availability and evolving nature of his throwing arm? He has to be throwing better now... depth, velocity, spin, touch... than he did in training camp.
            I could just be making excuses but I find it hard to believe the drops are the products of bad players, or hands, alone.

            I'm betting this is simply a plan to build from within and we're really simply rebooting the Luck era to handle it more traditionally.

            Irsay has always been an owner willing to lose to win. He's never been an owner willing to lose, or even tread water, to make money. So that gives me hope this is a process right now with a plan.
            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

            ------

            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

            -John Wooden

            Comment


            • I don’t get the revisionist history by some people who think last year’s team is better than this one. That team beat the Browns (winless at the time), Cardinals (winless at the time) and the Texans twice (without Watson both times).
              Originally posted by Natston;n3510291
              I want the people to know that they still have 2 out of the 3 T.J.s working for them, and that ain't bad...

              Comment


              • I can understand the frustration about the roster, but I think this roster has the best future potential of any in the last 4-5 years. They've still got a lot of holes (and it is so frustrating watching the drops in particular), but there are some significant pieces in place.

                There is a massive difference between the 2011 team and this one. The 2011 team got outscored by 187 points on the season. This team is on pace to get outscored by 75. That is the difference between an average bad team and a historically bad one. And considering the Colts have at most 4 games where they'll be underdogs by more than 4 points the rest of the year (Jags, At Jags, at Titans, at Texans) and six of their last 10 games are at home, I'm guessing that they will beat that projection.

                I'm still super optimistic about next year. They already have an extra second round pick. They have the most cap space in the league. And unless they start rattling off a bunch of close wins, this team is better than their eventual record. It will mostly depend on how aggressive they decide to be in filling holes, but even if they aren't that aggressive the team will be better next year.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cubs231721 View Post
                  There is a massive difference between the 2011 team and this one. The 2011 team got outscored by 187 points on the season. This team is on pace to get outscored by 75. That is the difference between an average bad team and a historically bad one. And considering the Colts have at most 4 games where they'll be underdogs by more than 4 points the rest of the year (Jags, At Jags, at Titans, at Texans) and six of their last 10 games are at home, I'm guessing that they will beat that projection.
                  The 2011 roster had some glaring holes, but the biggest reason for the massive point differential was the fact that they had some of the worst quarterbacking of any NFL team in modern history. There are just no words to describe how bad Collins and Painter were. So far beyond what is normally considered "bad".

                  The Colts were actually really close in a lot of the 2011 games, especially at the beginning of the season. They had their chances against Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Kansas City, Carolina, and Jacksonville (by that point they had switched to Orvlosky - Orvlosky also led a comeback against NE that year when the Colts only lost by 7). There were a handful of obscene blowouts that heavily contribute to that 187 point difference: We lost by an insane 55 points to New Orleans, 27 to Houston (first game without Manning), 24 to Atlanta. That's a whopping 106 points in just three games.

                  The Colts were actually in quite a few more close games that year than people realize. Clearly that team had some holes with all of the poor drafting the Polian regime did in their last 5 years here, but the main reason that team had a 2-14 record was because it trotted out what is maybe the worst QB rotation of any team in recent memory. If we would have just had a typically "bad" NFL quarterback instead of catastrophically horrendous ones, we probably win 4 or 5 games and keep Manning since we wouldn't have had the number 1 pick. Heck if we had played Orvlosky the whole season, we probably win enough games to not get the number 1 pick.

                  What makes things so depressing right now is that we have a solid healthy quarterback, yet are still 1-5. This is just a horrendous roster. Hopefully it improves, but I don't see a ton to be excited about right now.
                  Last edited by Sollozzo; 10-15-2018, 06:59 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post

                    The 2011 roster had some glaring holes, but the biggest reason for the massive point differential was the fact that they had some of the worst quarterbacking of any NFL team in modern history. There are just no words to describe how bad Collins and Painter were. So far beyond what is normally considered "bad".

                    The Colts were actually really close in a lot of the 2011 games, especially at the beginning of the season. They had their chances against Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Kansas City, Carolina, and Jacksonville (by that point they had switched to Orvlosky - Orvlosky also led a comeback against NE that year when the Colts only lost by 7). There were a handful of obscene blowouts that heavily contribute to that 187 point difference: We lost by an insane 55 points to New Orleans, 27 to Houston (first game without Manning), 24 to Atlanta. That's a whopping 106 points in just three games.

                    The Colts were actually in quite a few more close games that year than people realize. Clearly that team had some holes with all of the poor drafting the Polian regime did in their last 5 years here, but the main reason that team had a 2-14 record was because it trotted out what is maybe the worst QB rotation of any team in recent memory. If we would have just had a typically "bad" NFL quarterback instead of catastrophically horrendous ones, we probably win 4 or 5 games and keep Manning since we wouldn't have had the number 1 pick. Heck if we had played Orvlosky the whole season, we probably win enough games to not get the number 1 pick.

                    What makes things so depressing right now is that we have a solid healthy quarterback, yet are still 1-5. This is just a horrendous roster. Hopefully it improves, but I don't see a ton to be excited about right now.
                    Yes, Painter was ground zero for incompetent quarterbacking. We would have one some games if they'd have simply switched to Orlovsky earlier. He clearly outperformed Painter whenever he got the chance. That's why I think that was likely a ploy to secure the Luck pick.
                    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                    -Emiliano Zapata

                    Comment


                    • Well, if you take the surface temperature (record), you'll likely be freaking out.

                      But if you push that thermometer a little deeper in (lol), you get a better reading. The first thing you have to take into account is the sheer number of injuries. In a lot of our units, our 1st and 2nd stringers have actually played well. The problem is, we're down to our 3rd, 4th, 5th stringers in a lot of positions, and you'll find most teams struggle when you get that far down the depth chart.

                      Our QB play has clearly improved, and for the first time since Luck was drafted, I can honestly say our offensive line is serviceable. Our TEs haven't been terrible either, even getting down to the 4th and 5th stringers. Really, on offense, the only unit that isn't playing at an NFL-successful level is the receiver corps, and they are also ravaged by injuries. On defense, our defensive line has been doing well, imo. They aren't letting anyone run all over them, and we are getting to the quarterback at a high rate. Our linebacker corps --- Darius Leonard seems like he could run all 3 LB positions all by himself, he's so freakin' good. Our safeties are good, but they are freakin' injured all the time. And our DBs is a lot of the same.

                      So when you break it down by all those units, we really just have our receivers that need serious attention. This is year 2 of a rebuild, and I would say that for the most part, we are on the right track in terms of getting rid of all the large contracts, the old guys, and bringing in young affordable talent. Obviously, the WRs need some work. But consider that you could almost pin all these losses on dropped balls, tipped balls that get intercepted, and you see where our main problem is. Fix that receiving corp, and we're likely talking about a 3-4 win team at this point. It's not as bad as it seems. We've been in every single one fo these games, just had inopportunistic misteps at the end of these games to either seal the deal or complete the comeback... almost all of them dropped/tipped balls, and maybe 1 debatable coaching decision.

                      Again, this year is not a contending year in the grand scheme of things anyway, in my opinion, that starts next year, so this year is almost all completely "sandbox" design for the entire team, a year of culling the fat, getting some units some experience, including the coaches, and working towards next year. These losses aren't fun, but things will seem different when we get these guys healthy, we head into this next draft with a likely top 4 pick, a large number of picks overall, and a ton of cap space. I'm tellin' ya, this next off-season is gonna be fun, and knowing the holes we need to fill, we should be able to do that and really make some strides next season. This season is about further culling the contracts, getting that new coaching staff in place, getting Luck back in shape, establishing some things in our units, identifying our holes and filling in the gameplan for next year, and I think that is being accomplished.

                      Hell, think about how young our team is. Think about what our draft class is doing this year: Nelson, best rookie lineman, but Braden Smith is coming on like a freight train. Darius Leonard was like the 6th LB taken, but is so far the best of the class, and might be not only the best rookie defender, but could also the best defender in the league, period, outside of Mack in Chicago. Did you imagine when we drafted Nelson at #6 that we'd also get the drafts best linebacker? Then Kemoko Turay has been contributing, even starting. Tyquan Lewis was standing out in training camp before his injury, as was Deon Cain (man, we could use him right now). Nyheim and Jordan Wilkins have both contributed a ton this year, and so has Zaire Franklin. The only rookie we really haven't seen do much is Fountain. This has really been a helluva draft class so far.

                      But we have a ton of 2nd year guys, too. Obviously Hooker has been good, but Hairston, Marcus Johnson, Marlon Mack, Kenny Moore, Zack Pascal, Rigo Sanchez, Anthony Walker, Quincy Wilson -- all these guys are either starters or large contributors.

                      It's a young team, which means some headaches, but is also a good sign that the young talent we're bringing in is NFL-quality. I think things are looking up, and I'm excited to see this next draft class, and our free agent class, to pair with these 1st and 2nd year guys we already brought in.
                      Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-15-2018, 10:24 PM.
                      There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

                      Comment


                      • I think most here would agree that we weren't going to win the division at the start of the year. Many thought we would win 6-9 games. I thought we needed a better receiver to put alongside TY and Ballard thought saving money was best. Building through the draft is tricky and the all or nothing approach will hurt us in the long term. We like to blame all of our current misfortunes on the previous coach and GM but that shouldn't give Ballard a free pass on his mistakes. Those mistakes will be glaring next year if we struggle.

                        -- McDaniels fiasco
                        -- 2017 Draft: Hooker has shown flashes but is often injured. He also makes a lot of misreads in the cover 2. Wilson is injured and hasn't been our best corner when he is on the field. Basham is often injured and when he is on the field he is not emerging or showing like he can be a starter on a playoff team. Banner was cut. Mack is often injured and has shown he can play well (although he doesn't catch very well). Stewart adds depth and that is about it. Nate Hairston is healthy, but shouldn't be starting. Anthony Walker has been the best pick in this draft.
                        -2017 O-Line is his fault. He failed to bring protection to Brissett.

                        Now I am not saying that Grigson doesn't get most of the blame, but we can't just ignore these mistakes. Especially if draft picks don't produce like we expect. If we don't spend money on receivers in the offseason or get a CB that can defend.


                        Clearly, we had bigger than 8 holes on this team.

                        We need two more tackles with AC getting up there in age.
                        We need two more starting receivers.
                        We need one more running back.

                        Defensively:
                        We need two more DL for depth and one has to be an elite rusher.
                        We need one more LB who can coverage downfield (As good as Leonard has been he has missed coverage over the middle in the cover 2)
                        We need two more CB
                        We need more depth at safety (I think Farely is ok for a bottom feeder team but he takes horrible angles)

                        There is at least 10 to 11 holes to be competitive in the AFC. We are making mistakes because we have too many young guys shouldering minutes. I expected a bad record in the first 6 games. We could see 4-6 wins in the remaining 10, but unless we get healthy I don't think we could really see more than 2. I understand we have to be patient, but being patient does not guarantee we will see this plan work out. Look at the Titans, Bills, Dolphins, Cowboys, etc. Building through the draft doesn't guarantee you anything. We need a balanced approach from here on out. We have to get some vets in here to take us to the next stage of development. And if we miss on any number of draft picks then we will see a similar path next season.

                        We are what our record suggests. And I don't think we are a better team than last year with Luck at QB. We are a different team with a tougher schedule. We are a younger team and we are making mistakes. Everyone is. Luck included.

                        Comment


                        • As a person, I find Brad Wells to be incredibly obnoxious, but as a Colts fan (regardless of whether he calls himself that or not nowadays), he’s pretty knowledgeable. He’s been on a good roll this season explaining why Ballard hasn’t done too much to brag about thus far.

                          Ballard has already been here 40% as long as Grigson. There have been opportunities to improve roster. There’s just no excuse for a roster this bad. The McDaniels fiasco is also totally on him and Irsay. They should have easily been able to anticipate that the Pats weren’t going to let Tom Brady’s treasured OC go to the Colts of all teams without a fight.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                            As a person, I find Brad Wells to be incredibly obnoxious, but as a Colts fan (regardless of whether he calls himself that or not nowadays), he’s pretty knowledgeable. He’s been on a good roll this season explaining why Ballard hasn’t done too much to brag about thus far.

                            Ballard has already been here 40% as long as Grigson. There have been opportunities to improve roster. There’s just no excuse for a roster this bad. The McDaniels fiasco is also totally on him and Irsay. They should have easily been able to anticipate that the Pats weren’t going to let Tom Brady’s treasured OC go to the Colts of all teams without a fight.
                            While those are valid points about Ballard I think people have unrealistic expectations amongst this fanbase. Luck just got back, a huge mess was left behind and this is Reich's first year with the team. Its not like it was with Pagano where the Colts made the playoffs that year. Plus Wells also said Manning was going to run the team and that Gruden was supposed to coach her he's not that knowledgeable...

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                              • Originally posted by Major Cold View Post
                                I think most here would agree that we weren't going to win the division at the start of the year. Many thought we would win 6-9 games. I thought we needed a better receiver to put alongside TY and Ballard thought saving money was best. Building through the draft is tricky and the all or nothing approach will hurt us in the long term. We like to blame all of our current misfortunes on the previous coach and GM but that shouldn't give Ballard a free pass on his mistakes. Those mistakes will be glaring next year if we struggle.

                                -- McDaniels fiasco
                                -- 2017 Draft: Hooker has shown flashes but is often injured. He also makes a lot of misreads in the cover 2. Wilson is injured and hasn't been our best corner when he is on the field. Basham is often injured and when he is on the field he is not emerging or showing like he can be a starter on a playoff team. Banner was cut. Mack is often injured and has shown he can play well (although he doesn't catch very well). Stewart adds depth and that is about it. Nate Hairston is healthy, but shouldn't be starting. Anthony Walker has been the best pick in this draft.
                                -2017 O-Line is his fault. He failed to bring protection to Brissett.

                                Now I am not saying that Grigson doesn't get most of the blame, but we can't just ignore these mistakes. Especially if draft picks don't produce like we expect. If we don't spend money on receivers in the offseason or get a CB that can defend.


                                Clearly, we had bigger than 8 holes on this team.

                                We need two more tackles with AC getting up there in age.
                                We need two more starting receivers.
                                We need one more running back.

                                Defensively:
                                We need two more DL for depth and one has to be an elite rusher.
                                We need one more LB who can coverage downfield (As good as Leonard has been he has missed coverage over the middle in the cover 2)
                                We need two more CB
                                We need more depth at safety (I think Farely is ok for a bottom feeder team but he takes horrible angles)

                                There is at least 10 to 11 holes to be competitive in the AFC. We are making mistakes because we have too many young guys shouldering minutes. I expected a bad record in the first 6 games. We could see 4-6 wins in the remaining 10, but unless we get healthy I don't think we could really see more than 2. I understand we have to be patient, but being patient does not guarantee we will see this plan work out. Look at the Titans, Bills, Dolphins, Cowboys, etc. Building through the draft doesn't guarantee you anything. We need a balanced approach from here on out. We have to get some vets in here to take us to the next stage of development. And if we miss on any number of draft picks then we will see a similar path next season.

                                We are what our record suggests. And I don't think we are a better team than last year with Luck at QB. We are a different team with a tougher schedule. We are a younger team and we are making mistakes. Everyone is. Luck included.
                                First, I don't agree at all with pinning anything on Ballard for the McDaniels fiasco. That wasn't on Ballard, that was a douche who had committed to us, had been in deep conversations with us, and had started bringing coaches here. I don't see at all how Ballard was "responsible" for that. He followed that up by bringing in Reich, who was a pretty good backup plan, if not a better long-term option.
                                Second, 2017 o line fail was definitely a fail, but it was Ballard's first year, did you expect that atrocious o line to get fixed in one off-season?? Expectations are fairly unrealistic on your part if that's the case. The reality is, we're 6 games into season 2 of Ballard, and the o line is *noticeably* better. That cannot be overstated. I honestly can't remember the o line being better than it has the last few game since Luck came to this team. Not to say that they can't still improve, but this current line has been serviceable.
                                Third, your point that we have young guys making mistakes is based on the fact that these young guys weren't *supposed* to be having this much on-field time... it's the injuries that have been our biggest problem, taking our veterans off the field and putting these young guys in spots that allow them to make these mistakes.
                                Fourth, for every example you provide of building through the draft not working, I can provide an example of when it did, including this very Colts team who won a SB for us, which was mostly built through the draft. It's a patient approach, and one that really just this year is getting started. We can't act like Ballard didn't have a gigantic mess to clean up in that first year, so acting like he's on the hot seat because he didn't turn that disaster into a contender last year is silly. And I don't think Ballard is going to *completely* go through the draft, I think he just cut back on the FA signings the last few years to clear out the books and clear some cap space. I fully expect some FA moves this next year, now that he's cut a lot of fat and started to get his guys in place.
                                Fifth, this coaching staff is 6 games in. Let's not forget that 1) they are new at this too and going to make some mistakes, and 2) they are going to grow and improve.

                                Of course we still have holes to fill. Focusing on those holes and not acknowledging that we have some good young pieces is some tunnel vision. I get it, when things aren't going well, the place gets down on itself, it always has, but that does't mean the sky is falling or the team is in shambles.

                                We simply can't act like the version of the Colts we've seen these first 6 games is going to be set in stone going forward. This is a lot like last year when everyone was freaking out in the off-season for the Pacers, only for almost the entire board to have egg on its face when that team ran out of the gates and stuck it to most of the league. The fans couldn't see anything good going on last summer, but they were wrong, there were good things happening, and I think the Colts can be in the same boat this coming season. I honestly feel like we would've had a decent season *this* year, it's simply been derailed by injuries, which no one can predict or control. But it's not like years past, when even when we were healthy, it just felt like we had no playmakers. This year it feels like we are starting to accumulate some players... but the damn injury bug is nipping the growth in the bud.
                                Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-16-2018, 10:13 PM.
                                There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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