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Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #4: Patric Young

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  • #1

    Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #4: Patric Young

    We roll on today with the 4th in the 2014 draft series, taking a look at the high character big man from Florida, Patric Young. Previously we have looked at the draft profiles of Russ Smith, DeAndre Daniels, and Davion Berry.....you can read those scouting reports elsewhere on this site.

    Young looks like a physical beast, having the most muscular build of anyone in this draft and would be perhaps the strongest looking player we have had on our roster since Dale Davis wore blue and gold. Young measures in at 6'10, and weighs 247lbs, with a wingspan of 7'1 3/4. Somewhat I suppose due to his muscular build we has a smaller standing reach than you would expect at that size, and he also has extremely small hands for someone with his measurable, which does create some issues for Young as he plays. Young was born February 1, 1992, making him 22 years old.

    Let's look today at the heart and soul of the Florida Gators, Patric Young:

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    For a long time I looked at Young as a potential NBA 4 man, but due to how the game is changing and in the obvious limitations he has offensively, I think now that Young profiles exclusively as a 5 man at the pro level.

    I have no doubt that Young will be beloved by some of this boards most famous posters if he is selected due to his hustle, intangibles, and physical play. Young is a grown man, who plays with brutal strength and aggression as his 2 calling cards. Built like a pro wrestler, he has huge a huge upper body strength advantage over almost every opponent he will see. Often times that strength doesn't necessarily translate to his game, and in fact it may even hurt him occasionally, but that is who he is and he is a guy who knows his limitations. His offensive strengths are as a screener and a rim runner, and that's basically it.

    Young has a limited and crude, though effective for his team, offensive game. He doesn't necessarily score much himself (only 11ppg last year for Florida), yet his team was one of the most efficient offensive teams in the country, and Young did play a part in that as a screener and by doing the right things with the system they played.

    Young is perhaps the best screener in this draft, in what is a fading skill at this point. As a ballscreener, he just engulfs people, as it is very difficult to get around or recover from a screen that Young lays on you.....he really puts the wood to many of those smaller guards scattered around the country. Along with that, his screen TECHNIQUE is very good.....he is great at shifting/turning his feet to change angles of ball screens at the last second to help his dribbler (this takes a lot of basketball smarts and quick thinking to do this as well as Young does it) and he SPRINTS TO THE DAMN SCREEN pretty consistently instead of walking or jogging to it, which is a major problem throughout basketball and especially in Indianapolis. Young excels at baseline screens as well, but he really makes his mark as a ball screener somewhere in the middle of the floor.

    When he screens, he can do 3 things, and 3 things only really well. First, he can roll right to the rim and receive a lob pass for a dunk. Young can jump well, but only after a running start like he can get in this situation. Secondly, he can roll and "seal" his guy right in front of the rim and use his massive strength to get his defender on his hip. Occasionally he can even score if he gets this pass, but because he lacks the ability to turn and jump this skill actually doesn't help him as much as you'd think.

    I think what a clever coach will do though with Young is this: Have him set a ballscreen, then immediately sprint and set another screen away from the ball in the opposite direction somewhere. I can't find any tape of Young doing this at Florida, but it is a common NBA tactic for players like Young to do this, and that is what I would do with him primarily as a ballscreener in the pro game myself.

    What he can't do currently is catch a pass on a pick/pop and hit a jump shot, because currently Young has 0 face up game. He rarely will face up and even more rarely will he take a jumper. He also cannot "slip" the screen and semi roll to the rim and become a playmaker at this point....he is severely limited in that regard.

    How high you project Young for your team largely depends on how much confidence you have in him and your franchises' developmental staff to eventually get him a face up mid range jumper, because at this point you don't have to guard Young outside of about 5 feet, where he can muscle his way into the defenders chest and shoot a jump hook or running hook. Young has very little back to the basket game other than sealing deep and using raw power to score through the defense, or perhaps using his nice baby hook, which he gets nice elevation on and can use over either shoulder with either hand.

    While great screeners are important for a pro level offense to function, it is unlikely in this current climate of basketball that you'd want a guy to be a screener only....he needs at least some form of face up jumper I think to be able to be anything close to where his potential says he can get to.

    Strangely to me, Young seems to really struggle with his foul shot and jump shot form still for the Gators, who I believe teach shooting form better than almost all other college teams. His feet are not angled properly like the new school shooting gurus teach, instead he is a "square to the rim" shooter, and recently biometrics and analysis have proven that to be ineffective. I am surprised that Florida (who was one of the leading programs to research and implement that theory) couldn't or didn't fix that.

    For me, I like the chances of a pro team being able to make Young a good and reliable 15-18 feet jump shooter. He seems to be intelligent and hard working, and I also know that the Gators limit their post players to their specific roles more than almost any other team in the NCAA. Being a team guy who played his role, it is understandable to me that Young didn't push his boundaries or limits in developing his jump shot, but I do believe he can do that in the NBA given time and proper coaching. It is NOT guaranteed however.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Young as a rebounder was a scouting challenge.

    He rebounded by the numbers pretty poorly for someone of his strength and size, average just over 6 rebounds in just over 26 minutes per game. And I would also dare say that his numbers may have been inflated still by getting his own misses back occasionally, though I have no numbers to back that statement up.

    However, Young is in fact, in my opinion, a really good rebounder in an old school way.....he blocks out big time and PREVENTS THE OPPONENT from rebounding.....he just lacks the ability to clean up the board himself. Florida is a great rebounding team with Young on the floor, it was just that Young himself didn't get the statistic out of it. Our own Roy Hibbert is like that too, as is Nene for Washington. DOES YOUR TEAM REBOUND BETTER WHEN YOU ARE ON THE FLOOR? That is the main question, and for Young I think the answer is yes.

    Having said that, Young's own body frame works against him as a board man, as does his style of play.

    Young can jump high off of a running start. But going from a standing position into a jump is hard for him....he is not "quick twitchy" at all, and his rebounds are almost always below the rim when a rebound just happens to bounce to him. He isn't going to get any rebounds for you outside his area. That, and his rather short standing reach and extremely small (and bad) hands hurt him on the glass. Occasionally he won't come up with a rebound that on tape you just scream at the screen for him to get....but those are the limitations he has at this point, and I doubt that he can be improved in that area...he is what he is. Having said that, if he could be taught to block out and move backwards on the balls of his feet instead of heels, that would mostly solve the problem......but that isn't all that easy to do naturally and to train for.

    Offensive rebounding for him was comical almost to watch. Young hustles, no question. But he has zero finesse or strategy to get offensive boards! No one apparently taught him yet how to "rip under" or "swim over" his arms to get around people in crowds....instead, he just runs into them and tries to use brute raw power to knock them under the rim and get the basketball. This works occasionally, but he isn't nearly as effective at cleaning the offensive glass as he should be.

    Bottom line: he is the type of rebounder that will aggravate the average fan, but his team likely will rebound better than average with him on the floor. But to make up for his offensive limitations, he has to learn some tricks of the trade to be a better offensive rebounder.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Let's face it: I wrote a lot of words up above, but nobody is going to pick Young because of his offensive skills. If you like Young, it is probably because of his extremely effective defensive game. Young rates as a substantially above average 5 man defender.

    Really really talented big men will be able to score over Young in the low post by shooting over him, I will give you that. But they will have to work extremely hard to get the ball in the first place, because Young concedes nothing. He will lay the arm bar to a post guy who tries to change sides of the floor, and he will push you off the block with his power and lower body leverage and make you uncomfortable as the ball is coming to you. If the scheme calls for it, he can get around you and front the post, and make you miserable trying to fight him because he will wear you down with his relentless motor. It will not be fun trying to score against Patric Young as a post guy.

    Where he stands out most however is the ability to guard the dribbler, either as an attacking 5 man who faces him up or as a ballscreen defender in a hedge or switch situation. He moves his feet very well for his size and keeps his puppies underneath him, maintaining his balance in the slide, and then even showing an ability to rise and contest a jump shot. That is interesting to me, because in a blockout situation he struggles to get off the ground, but in a defensive contest situation he really doesn't.

    Young will be able to play the ballscreen defensively in anyway a coach chooses to do so. For Indiana, we normally lie back with our bigs, mainly because our bigs are so slow. Other teams like to hedge harder or even "blitz" the ballhandler occasionally, and Young will be able to do all of that and even just straight switch in late shot clock situations most of the time and not be hurt by that. The note I kept making on Young was "nimble feet on D."

    Because Young is extremely intelligent and well coached, Young can really help your team defense as well as a leader/captain type, and he gives you some rim protection from the weakside, as he can elevate well and enjoys that kind of roll. He will get posterized a bit because he will try to help where some other guys would just back away, but his teammates will love him for it.

    Lastly, you know how we get tired (Or at least I do) of soft fouls by the basket that end up being 3 point plays? Young is not going to soft foul you....if he chooses to not let you score by fouling you, you'll know it.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Additionally, Young was a 4 year guy at Florida, and an academic all American. He is extremely well spoken and thoughtful and is a very high character guy. I assume his interviews with teams will be off the charts, and I am sure he got race reviews from his coaches and others in all of the background checks.

    Some of my notes while watching him live this season were....."you can go to war with PY", "Young is a man", "Young is playing his sack off", "Young helps you freaking WIN". Needless to say, I like Patric Young in general, as I am sure whatever coach he gets will as well. The clip below will give you an idea of how he played in college, and I think Jimmy Dykes play call after the play describes him well. I am told that college coaches around the country played this clip for their teams to show them what playing with passion and pride looked like:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT08X-uGcIk

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So what do we have in Patric Young?

    I think we have a scrapper, a fighter, a big man who does the little things for you, a physical big man who helps you win. He also is super limited offensively and may or may not ever develop a jump shot, and even though I think his overall rebounding prowess is fine, he wont exactly fill up the stat sheet for you in the rebounding department. He can't score much on the block, and he can't shoot at all even from the line, so he can't play late in close games perhaps.

    But I think if he was your back up center that you could win with him, and I even think he could start for certain teams in the exact right situation as a guy who just cared about screening and defending for a team who had a lot of dynamic scorers elsewhere in the lineup. He would fit best probably as an LA Clipper, in Miami or in Oklahoma City.

    Even if you drafted him and he ended up being your 5th big or 3rd string center, I think his motor and work ethic are handy to have in your locker room and on the practice floor. But I think he is better than 3rd string, and will likely have a long career as an NBA backup center.

    Getting a jump shot would REALLY help his game a ton, and I hope whoever he ends up with can make that happen for him.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    For Indiana, he would easily be a cheaper alternative to bringing Lavoy Allen back, and in my view drafting him would open up an opportunity to perhaps move Ian Mahimni and his contract for a more useful to us piece, and perhaps save some cap space. I do believe he is purely a 5 man though for us, I don't think he can play alongside Roy Hibbert offensively at all, and I'd worry about how we'd rebound with both of them in their together.

    Having said that, he has no chance to be there at #57, so we would likely have to move up into the 35-45 range to get him.

    To do that, I would do the following:

    1. Try and trade cash and pick #57 only, and perhaps include a future 2nd rounder if absolutely necessary.
    2. I would also try and have a trade pre arranged to trade Mahimni somewhere for another cheaper asset or for just cap space and a future 2nd rounder.

    Adding Young and subtracting Mahimni would clear about 3 million or so off our cap space this year (Ian makes about 4 million, then subtract Young's starting salary), which could be handy for several reason. That is what I'd try and do IF I were Indiana, and I liked Young.

    Young isn't my FAVORITE 2nd round possibility, but he is probably my second choice, and it is easy to see the above scenario playing out in my mind.

    NBA Comparable: Kendrick Perkins/Joel Anthony



    This time until next time......

    Tbird
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #4: Patric Young

    TBird said.."Having said that, he has no chance to be there at #57, so we would likely have to move up into the 35-45 range to get him.

    To do that, I would do the following:

    1. Try and trade cash and pick #57 only, and perhaps include a future 2nd rounder if absolutely necessary.
    2. I would also try and have a trade pre arranged to trade Mahimni somewhere for another cheaper asset or for just cap space and a future 2nd rounder.

    Adding Young and subtracting Mahimni would clear about 3 million or so off our cap space this year (Ian makes about 4 million, then subtract Young's starting salary), which could be handy for several reason. That is what I'd try and do IF I were Indiana, and I liked Young."



    I like him for the Pacers much better than Ian. He moves and uses his body VERY well on defense. Sign me up. I think he would be a good pairing with West as West is not very mobile but oh would it be fun to see those two on the floor at the same time.
    {o,o}
    |)__)
    -"-"-

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #4: Patric Young

      Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
      Young looks like a physical beast, having the most muscular build of anyone in this draft and would be perhaps the strongest looking player we have had on our roster since Dale Davis wore blue and gold.
      My goodness, if we draft Young, then hire Dale Davis to tutor him (defensively, not offensively), PD is going to be in the market for some anti-Cialis pills. "If you should experience an erection lasting more than four hours, call your doctor."

      I'm lukewarm at best on Mahinmi, and since I know we have to "cut corners" somewhere, I really like the idea of trading him if/for Young.

      Tbird (and everyone), here's my burning question: Given a trio of PG, Lance (assuming re-signed) and GHill, which roster strategy would be better for the Pacers: (1) upgrade scoring at center, either by trading Hibbert (Pau Gasol?) or by trading Mahinmi for an offensive upgrade (and perhaps a defensive downgrade), or (2) dedicate our centers to being elite, defensively, and upgrade offensively at the 4?

      I'll raise a glass with Seth if the Pacers sign Josh McRoberts, because his scoring, passing and transition game would be a blessing to our current squad. However, Tbird, should you address any first-round players that you think would be worth trading up for, I'd love for you to cover Adreian Payne. He gets my vote for "most coveted" as a trade-up prospect.


      "He’s no shrinking violet when it comes to that kind of stuff."

      - Rick Carlisle on how Kevin Pritchard responds to needed roster changes.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #4: Patric Young

        Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
        Young is perhaps the best screener in this draft, in what is a fading skill at this point. As a ballscreener, he just engulfs people, as it is very difficult to get around or recover from a screen that Young lays on you.....he really puts the wood to many of those smaller guards scattered around the country. Along with that, his screen TECHNIQUE is very good.....he is great at shifting/turning his feet to change angles of ball screens at the last second to help his dribbler (this takes a lot of basketball smarts and quick thinking to do this as well as Young does it) and he SPRINTS TO THE DAMN SCREEN pretty consistently instead of walking or jogging to it, which is a major problem throughout basketball and especially in Indianapolis. Young excels at baseline screens as well, but he really makes his mark as a ball screener somewhere in the middle of the floor.

        When he screens, he can do 3 things, and 3 things only really well. First, he can roll right to the rim and receive a lob pass for a dunk. Young can jump well, but only after a running start like he can get in this situation. Secondly, he can roll and "seal" his guy right in front of the rim and use his massive strength to get his defender on his hip. Occasionally he can even score if he gets this pass, but because he lacks the ability to turn and jump this skill actually doesn't help him as much as you'd think.

        I think what a clever coach will do though with Young is this: Have him set a ballscreen, then immediately sprint and set another screen away from the ball in the opposite direction somewhere. I can't find any tape of Young doing this at Florida, but it is a common NBA tactic for players like Young to do this, and that is what I would do with him primarily as a ballscreener in the pro game myself.
        You had me at "Best Screener in the draft".

        After the effectiveness of the "illegal" screens that the Wizards kept on running.....I would draft him just for that reason.
        Last edited by CableKC; 06-20-2014, 06:57 PM.
        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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        • #5
          Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #4: Patric Young

          Getting Young and unloading Mahinmi's contract to upgrade the bench elsewhere or throw some extra money at Lance is one of those moves that just makes too much sense to happen.

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          • #6
            Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #4: Patric Young

            I like T-Birds thinking about getting Young. Being able to use Mahimni in order to get another player is what the Pacers need. 4 mil could get a nice player for the bench. A scorer, a PG, a PF to b/u DWest... something!

            Not advocating this, BUT Patric Young and Ivan Johnson in the paint. Talk about the Bruise Brothers. Smashmouth Returnith!

            No scoring tho.

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            • #7
              Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #4: Patric Young

              Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
              Young measures in at 6'10, and weighs 247lbs, with a wingspan of 7'1 3/4. Somewhat I suppose due to his muscular build we has a smaller standing reach than you would expect at that size, and he also has extremely small hands for someone with his measurable, which does create some issues for Young as he plays.
              How much stock do you put on physical measurements, Tbird? Young's standing reach is really low compared to his height. 8'7.5'', which is about the same as Evan Turner's and Lance Stephenson's measurements, and considerably below David West (9'0.5") or Paul George (8'11"). According to DX, his closest physical profile comparison is Carl Landry, who definitely isn't center sized. But to be fair, Young is about an inch taller than Landry. Would his reach be a concern?

              Other than that, he sounds pretty good.

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              • #8
                Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #4: Patric Young

                I like this guy a lot and I think he can be a good offensive rebounder. He just works, and I think he would be a great backup center for us. He and Lavoy Allen together would be a good bench rotation. Or maybe a shot blocking 4.

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                • #9
                  Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #4: Patric Young

                  I want to like Young, but the lack of rebounding is a big issue for me. Pacers already have weak rebounding bigs. It's also why I don't like MacAdoo.
                  First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #4: Patric Young

                    Originally posted by Justin Tyme View Post
                    I like T-Birds thinking about getting Young. Being able to use Mahimni in order to get another player is what the Pacers need. 4 mil could get a nice player for the bench. A scorer, a PG, a PF to b/u DWest... something!

                    Not advocating this, BUT Patric Young and Ivan Johnson in the paint. Talk about the Bruise Brothers. Smashmouth Returnith!

                    No scoring tho.
                    I'm advocating it, IF Ivan can stay under control and leave Crazy Ivan overseas.
                    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

                    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "

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                    • #11
                      Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #4: Patric Young

                      Originally posted by Sparhawk View Post
                      I want to like Young, but the lack of rebounding is a big issue for me. Pacers already have weak rebounding bigs. It's also why I don't like MacAdoo.
                      Lack of rebounding?



                      I think he is a solid rebounder the system, and talent he played with wasn't conducive to heavy statistical rebounding. He will be more than fine on the glass.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #4: Patric Young

                        The guy I really loved on the Gators this year was Frazier II he is going to have a breakout year next year. Really good defender and deadly shooter(who appears to have much more dribble ablity than he is allowed to this year), I had him in the same tier as a Gary Harris and Nik Stauskas. I am a lot higher than most. I was hoping he would come out, but good choice going back. He will be a top 10 pick next year if he plays like I think he can.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #4: Patric Young

                          We absolutely need another guy that can fuel the Lance Steals Rebounds debate. Perfect pick for this team.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #4: Patric Young

                            Love Patric Young!

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                            • #15
                              Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #4: Patric Young

                              He has that hustle factor. Something that was lacking on this team.
                              {o,o}
                              |)__)
                              -"-"-

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