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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Pacers' problems more peripheral than core-related

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  • #31
    Re: Pacers' problems more peripheral than core-related

    Originally posted by Since86 View Post
    Statistics is plural, so I figured there was more. What would really tell the difference is Lance's time of possession per assist break down between, say, Nov and April.

    I would asume GHill would have the ball in his hands more, as he's the one that normally brought the ball up the floor, which was usually done at a slower pace. An extra 5 secs of bringing up the ball/setting up the offense per possession really starts to add up over 50-60 possessions per game.
    yup. which is why that stat isn't the best. now if they were able to break it down, like time of possession once you cross half court, that stat would be much better imo.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Pacers' problems more peripheral than core-related

      Originally posted by Rogco View Post
      True, but it would have to take Hill 64 seconds to bring the ball across the halfway line per possession to even out, and while he's slow, he's not that slow.
      Duhr? The difference is 120 seconds. An extra 2 seconds per possession on 69.5 possessions is 139 seconds. Where is the 64 seconds of which you speak?

      We have gone into this multiple times. Lance passes when he has an assist. GHill passes as part of the offense, meaning his pass is the one that sets up the next one.

      But I guess we can go with the myth as constructed by those statistics taken in a vacuum, that GHill would touch the ball and never give it up but also not turn it over as much nor shoot it as much. What he actually DID with the ball, who knows, but he didn't hold it for a shot clock violation, pass it, or shoot it. There must be some other obscure statistic to explain what he DID do.
      BillS

      A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
      Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Pacers' problems more peripheral than core-related

        Not really, because it's the different roles that they have. If I bring the ball up, say 10 possessions, and the only thing I have to do is make the initial pass to start the offensive set, and then I cut and go to the corner (like GHill does) and it takes me 5-6 secs per possession to do that, I'm already at 50-60secs before I ever get into a situation where I'm setting myself to get an assist. Whereas Lance is often times getting a ball reversal and driving, or getting a pass and looking to get straight into a PnR.

        I totally agree that he (GHill) has a habit of over-dribbling, but my issues with it is when he's staring down a receiver trying to force a pass in, usually to the post, instead of seeing it's not there and then moving the ball.

        Time of possession between assists doesn't tell me much. (Your link doesn't work BTW) I would imagine that Roy/West both have a higher time of possession between assists than Lance, and it's not because they're black holes, but because of the roles they're in. They're not in roles to create for others, and when they do get assists, it's usually out of a non-designed back cut/kick out, something along those lines.

        It's just weird to try and read the argument that GHill is a ball hog, when the vast majority of the criticism towards him is how he isn't aggressive enough and that he's invisible on the floor.

        EDIT: I found the page, and I'll just use West as the example, and not Roy as well because West is on the first page and I don't feel like hunting for Roy.

        West averages 25.5 touches per assist. Does that mean he's a black hole?
        Last edited by Since86; 06-04-2014, 03:58 PM.
        “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Pacers' problems more peripheral than core-related

          George Hill may have a problem over dribbling, but I don't notice it because he plays with Paul George and Lance Stephenson.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Pacers' problems more peripheral than core-related

            Originally posted by Sookie View Post
            George Hill may have a problem over dribbling, but I don't notice it because he plays with Paul George and Lance Stephenson.
            Touchι.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Pacers' problems more peripheral than core-related

              Originally posted by Sookie View Post
              George Hill may have a problem over dribbling, but I don't notice it because he plays with Paul George and Lance Stephenson.
              George Hill's problem is lack of vision. He just doesn't see the wide open player/shooter. PG and Lance just over dribble to make things happen. Hill over dribbles cause he just lacks vision and passing skills.

              Hill is not a pg. Just cause he can defend some pgs, doesn't make him one. Such an ill fit. He's better as a sg off the bench, it's just too bad he's paid like a starting pg.
              First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Pacers' problems more peripheral than core-related

                Originally posted by Sparhawk View Post
                He just doesn't see the wide open player/shooter.
                I'm no Hill fanboy, but it's pretty damn hard to see something that rarely exists in our offense.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Pacers' problems more peripheral than core-related

                  Okay I found Roy. (I didn't realize you could sort the players alphabetically) Maybe this illustrates Roy's point about how little he was used this season. He only averaged 21ish touches in the front court per game. Only 33 touches per game total, which I'm assuming would be defensive rebounds+steals+misc. possessions.

                  Number of touches per game for starting 5. (front court touches)
                  GHill - 58.3
                  Lance - 48.9
                  PG - 54.6
                  West - 42.1
                  Roy - 20.6

                  That discrepancy is amazing.

                  CJ averaged 28.8 touches in the front court.
                  “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Pacers' problems more peripheral than core-related

                    Is it amazing though? I get a player wanting more touches, they all do, but I don't think Roy's got any place to complain. That's what pissed me off about it more than anything. Become anything near an efficient offense player, give us a reason to give you more touches, then you may have an argument. The guy just isn't a good offensive player, he should honestly be relegated to basically nothing but putbacks and wide open under the rim dump offs

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Pacers' problems more peripheral than core-related

                      Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                      Okay I found Roy. (I didn't realize you could sort the players alphabetically) Maybe this illustrates Roy's point about how little he was used this season. He only averaged 21ish touches in the front court per game. Only 33 touches per game total, which I'm assuming would be defensive rebounds+steals+misc. possessions.

                      Number of touches per game for starting 5. (front court touches)
                      GHill - 58.3
                      Lance - 48.9
                      PG - 54.6
                      West - 42.1
                      Roy - 20.6

                      That discrepancy is amazing.

                      CJ averaged 28.8 touches in the front court.
                      That's disappointing. I knew Roy wasn't getting as much as he used to, but I didn't know it was that bad.

                      EDIT: Is there any way to find out last seasons breakdown? That website doesn't have anything before 2013.
                      Last edited by shadowjfaith; 06-04-2014, 04:18 PM.
                      Stephenson with the .1 second tap in.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Pacers' problems more peripheral than core-related

                        I guess the next logical step would to take the number of front court touches divided by number of field goal attempts.

                        GHill - 7.2 possessions per fga
                        Lance - 6.04
                        PG - 3.2
                        West - 3.6
                        Roy - 2.2

                        Explains why Roy forces those 10-13ft running hook shots.
                        “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Pacers' problems more peripheral than core-related

                          Originally posted by Since86 View Post

                          It's just weird to try and read the argument that GHill is a ball hog, when the vast majority of the criticism towards him is how he isn't aggressive enough and that he's invisible on the floor.

                          EDIT: I found the page, and I'll just use West as the example, and not Roy as well because West is on the first page and I don't feel like hunting for Roy.

                          West averages 25.5 touches per assist. Does that mean he's a black hole?
                          I find it really weird that people don't consider Hill to be a huge ball hog. The guy stands their dribbling for ages. I guess if you don't try and do anything people don't consider you a ball hog. And you can argue whether the stats are meaningful or not, the point is you can't find a single stat that would indicate Lance is more of a ball consumer than Hill. Hell, even the West example above is a great example of Hill's ball hogging and non-passing. West averages 25.5 touches per an assist, at a rate of 1.5 seconds per touch, so he averages an assist for every 38.25 seconds he has the ball. IE, if Hill and West were to have the ball the same amount of time, West would have 3 times more assists than Hill.
                          Danger Zone

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Pacers' problems more peripheral than core-related

                            Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
                            Is it amazing though? I get a player wanting more touches, they all do, but I don't think Roy's got any place to complain. That's what pissed me off about it more than anything. Become anything near an efficient offense player, give us a reason to give you more touches, then you may have an argument. The guy just isn't a good offensive player, he should honestly be relegated to basically nothing but putbacks and wide open under the rim dump offs
                            I've been saying since about Feb. that Roy's shot selection/efficiency was taking a dip due to him seeing the ball so less. I don't like it, but I can understand a player feeling like he's not getting the ball a whole lot and forcing up some bad shots because they think they won't see it for a while.

                            Big men are just a different breed of animal. Guards are easier to chastize with shot selection because they have so many opportunities to do something. But your big man only getting 20 touches per game, when he's averaging nearly 30mins per game, is a problem.

                            And shadow, they just have this season's stats.
                            “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Pacers' problems more peripheral than core-related

                              Originally posted by Rogco View Post
                              I find it really weird that people don't consider Hill to be a huge ball hog. The guy stands their dribbling for ages. I guess if you don't try and do anything people don't consider you a ball hog. And you can argue whether the stats are meaningful or not, the point is you can't find a single stat that would indicate Lance is more of a ball consumer than Hill. Hell, even the West example above is a great example of Hill's ball hogging and non-passing. West averages 25.5 touches per an assist, at a rate of 1.5 seconds per touch, so he averages an assist for every 38.25 seconds he has the ball. IE, if Hill and West were to have the ball the same amount of time, West would have 3 times more assists than Hill.

                              Sure I can. Usage rate.
                              GHill 14.8
                              Lance 19.4

                              Throw this in as a wrinkle, Lance's 12-13 usage rate (15.2) is higher than GHill's this season. GHill's usage rate last season was 18.8.
                              “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Pacers' problems more peripheral than core-related

                                Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                                I've been saying since about Feb. that Roy's shot selection/efficiency was taking a dip due to him seeing the ball so less. I don't like it, but I can understand a player feeling like he's not getting the ball a whole lot and forcing up some bad shots because they think they won't see it for a while.

                                Big men are just a different breed of animal. Guards are easier to chastize with shot selection because they have so many opportunities to do something. But your big man only getting 20 touches per game, when he's averaging nearly 30mins per game, is a problem.

                                And shadow, they just have this season's stats.
                                So what do you think caused this? Was it a mutual relationship of Roy getting the ball less because he wasn't shooting well and then in turn continued his decline because he was seeing the ball even less? Or did we just abandon the system that worked so well for us. If so who caused that? Vogel would easily be the first to blame for not running plays for Hibb, but is he the reason?
                                Stephenson with the .1 second tap in.

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