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Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun. -
Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.
Actually, the whole reason behind havng multiple jurors is to eliminate the influence of gut feelings. If literally everybody in the courtroom knows a defendant committed a crime but the only evidence condemning the defendant is thrown out because it was obtained illegally, according to law the defendant hasn't been proven guilty and will walk away free if no further evidence can be found.Time for a new sig.Comment
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"Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference
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"Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference
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Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.
I'm pretty sure he was talking about the process of bringing charges, not the guilt/innocence. The process of weighing evidence from a lawyer/detective is different than the process a jury goes through. EDIT: Hence the "to try to piece together what happened at the scene of a crime" part.Last edited by Since86; 11-04-2013, 03:15 PM.“Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.Comment
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Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.
A little of both, I suppose, but the main point being we don't just ignore evidence (well, we do, but we're not supposed to do it) that doesn't agree with our gut, we're supposed to document and consider ALL of the evidence. Whether we're a detective, a lawyer, a juror, or a judge. The main point is, I see "intuition over integers," and I think, "He wants to pick and choose the evidence."Comment
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Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.
Who has ever said that you don't have to interpret statistics? Statistics are not right or wrong, they're observations of what happened. The problem with statistics is that it is possible for people to draw incorrect conclusions from them. This does not, however, mean that all conclusions drawn from statistics are incorrect.Last edited by aamcguy; 11-04-2013, 03:22 PM.Time for a new sig.Comment
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Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.
The thing that really hasn't been talked about much is how good Lance has been statistically this season. Right now, he's getting results. There's no way he continues at the pace he is now, but if Lance can shoot around 50% for the season and above 35% from 3, he will have a lot more "believers" before half of the season is even gone. If he really is going to be this good all year, it is ultimately statistics that will convince the "haters" that he is for real.
The only reason there's resistance right now is because people are waiting to see what level he's performing at when he comes back down to earth. He is quite clearly on a hot streak right now, but if he's going to be shooting 12+ shots a game all season we are also going to be watching a change from a power-post offense to an offense where we use power post players to set up our perimeter scorers.Time for a new sig.Comment
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Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.
I know Danny Granger slipped quite a bit. I know Lance has improved quite a bit. Also, they are very different players. With very different skillsets. Danny's slippage might've been due to age, his knee, or too much time spent with Jim O'Brien. Or all of the above. I don't need stats to tell me any of that stuff.
Here's the big thing with me, even IF Granger can fully recover and play the game like a 25 year old.... Both he and PG are natural SF's. Lance is more a natural guard. Sure there is some crossover in ability and those roles (SF/SG) but all things being equal I prefer players to play the positions that are naturally suited for. In this case, all things aren't equal.... Lance is up and coming, started all year for the ECF finalist Pacers, continues to improve, was part of a starting lineup that wasn't the weak spot of the team, and fits very well with the starting lineup.
Granger is 30 years old, coming off injury, has barely played in over a year, has looked rusty, is currently wearing a suit, hasn't proven to be able to stay healthy or consistent, and is a prototypical SF. The position where we already have a budding star.
This whole argument is really moot in my mind because really the argument should be between Danny or PG at SF.... and that has been settled a long long time ago.
Right now I think the place for Granger is to try to find a role off the bench. And the longer he wears a suit and the more success the team has I'm going to be even less inclined to want to try very hard to find a place for Granger. IMHO the only place on this team that might be able to utilize Granger is the bench. There is no role to carve out for Granger with the starters. He's a SF and we have that position covered. He should be penciled in to backup Paul George with some time together in matchups where interchangeable SF/SG roles work. Neither PG or DG have superstar potential at the SG spot. Lance gives us more of a prototypical SG and some potential to be fairly special and perhaps even the batman and robin combo we've all talked about in Pacerland for years.
And for those who'd argue it doesn't matter who starts, then why would you argue that Granger should start?Last edited by Bball; 11-04-2013, 04:03 PM.Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.
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"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."
-John WoodenComment
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Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.
Is now a good time to mention that Jim O'Brien was the first person I'm aware of who said after the 2010 draft that the acquisitions of Paul George and Lance Stephenson were going to be seen looking back as the real turning point for the franchise? It's true.Comment
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Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.
So really we need to dig back up the Vogel quotes where he says it doesn't make a difference on who is the 2 and who is the 3 then, because the sets aren't for a specfic position, but rather for specific players?
EDIT: Here's the link if you'd like to pay for it, but the second sentence sums it up.
Indiana Pacers coach Frank Vogel said there's not a significant difference.Last edited by Since86; 11-04-2013, 04:05 PM.“Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.Comment
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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
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"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"
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In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6And I would put the pasted article in quotes like this.
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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