Anatomy of a Deal: Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - Zach Lowe

[Trader Joe]

Re: Anatomy of a Deal: Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - Zach Lowe

Sorry but the dropoff we would see from Hill to Collison more than offsets the gain from Lance to Kawhi, and I like DC well enough, but Hill is just a better player for our system in every way.

[Hicks]

Re: Anatomy of a Deal: Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - Zach Lowe

The bit about Donnie Walsh and what he says about signing George Hill last summer still kind of kills me. Way to outbid yourself.

[vnzla81]

Re: Anatomy of a Deal: Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - Zach Lowe

The bit about Donnie Walsh and what he says about signing George Hill last summer still kind of kills me. Way to outbid yourself.

Get ready to hear the same thing about David West this off season, "well we didn't want anybody to outbid us so we offered him the moon", just watch.

[McKeyFan]

Re: Anatomy of a Deal: Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - Zach Lowe

Interesting that you could make an argument that it's really ended up with us playing Lance instead of Leonard on the wing.

How many of us are okay with that? How many would trade Lance for Leonard straight up? Anybody who wouldn't? (I would have a tough time.)

[Coopdog23]

Re: Anatomy of a Deal: Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - Zach Lowe

Hill was the better point guard for our system than DC was. DC was a great asset to have, but Hill was the better guy for the job

[Justin Tyme]

Re: Anatomy of a Deal: Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - Zach Lowe

The bit about Donnie Walsh and what he says about signing George Hill last summer still kind of kills me. Way to outbid yourself.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

Walsh outsmarted himself. He paid too much and a year longer on the contract. Walsh can say other teams would have, but what teams? No team gave Hill an offer sheet. Sounds like a prime case of CYOA to me by Walsh. Walsh made some poor decisions during the off season, and re-signing Hill as quickly as he did is one of them. IIRC, signing Hill so quickly took the Pacers out of bidding on amnestied players such as Scola. Scola could have really helped the Pacers bench.

I don't remember the exact time frame of when the signings of Hibbert, Hill, Green, trading for Mahinmi, and Augustin happened, but maybe someone else has a better memory than I do.

AND yes, Lowe is right that Sam Young at b/u SF in the playoffs isn't cutting it.

[Justin Tyme]

Re: Anatomy of a Deal: Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - Zach Lowe

Interesting that you could make an argument that it's really ended up with us playing Lance instead of Leonard on the wing.

How many of us are okay with that? How many would trade Lance for Leonard straight up? Anybody who wouldn't? (I would have a tough time.)

I was totally against trading the 15th pick for Hill, and was very adament about it. I've gotten use to the trade but, as I said then there would be 1 or more players drafted at or after #15 that would be better than Hill. I still stand by that statement. Faried, Leonard, Vucevic, and maybe Shupert and Reggie Jackson.

Hill isn't my type PG, but for the most part it's worked out ok. It could be worse, but I still wouldn't pass on trying to pick up a PG for the future.

[CableKC]

Re: Anatomy of a Deal: Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - Zach Lowe

Interesting that you could make an argument that it's really ended up with us playing Lance instead of Leonard on the wing.

How many of us are okay with that? How many would trade Lance for Leonard straight up? Anybody who wouldn't? (I would have a tough time.)

Can you clarify your post here?

20/20 hindsight being clear....I think that Lance would have gotten minutes regardless even if Kawhi was here....cuz the only reason why Lance received minutes was because Granger went down. At worst...I'd suspect that Lance would have taken 10-15 mpg at the Wing spot....basically the minutes that Young/Green/OJ are taking now.

But playing armchair quarterback...I can see an argument that would suggest that if Kawhi was on the Team along with Lance that there wouldn't have been a need to go after Green....where that additional Capspace savings could have been used to go after another Starting Quality PG.

About this article by Lowe.....I understand the importance of this trade and the impact that it has on both Teams that have made it this far into the Playoffs.....but I really wish that Teams would be more open as to why they make these type of trades or they explain who and why they consider drafting. This is the type of "I wish I was a fly on the wall" discussions that I love to hear about. I really wonder why the FO don't reveal more info about why they make certain type of moves. As many have asked....if not complained about....I'd love to understand Bird's motivation as to why they chose Plumlee over other Players ( like Draymond Green or others ) that have had a greater impact to their respective Teams.

[Justin Tyme]

Re: Anatomy of a Deal: Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - Zach Lowe

In the 1st paragraph, it puts in perspective who was doing the negoiations in Pacers deals, and it wasn't Bird. Not that I ever thought Bird was doing much talking to other GM's when it came out many other GM's didn't like Bird's crass ways. IIRC, Morway was the person who got the Pacers the 7.5 mil TE with NO for Peja.

But then Dennis Lindsey was doing the negoiating for the Spurs. Makes me wonder who is doing the negoiating in the Pacers FO now, Walsh or Pritchard. Whoever it is needs to do something to fix the bench this off season. That is priority #1 this off season!!!

[J7F]

Re: Anatomy of a Deal: Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - Zach Lowe

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

Walsh outsmarted himself. He paid too much and a year longer on the contract. Walsh can say other teams would have, but what teams? No team gave Hill an offer sheet. Sounds like a prime case of CYOA to me by Walsh. Walsh made some poor decisions during the off season, and re-signing Hill as quickly as he did is one of them. IIRC, signing Hill so quickly took the Pacers out of bidding on amnestied players such as Scola. Scola could have really helped the Pacers bench.

I don't remember the exact time frame of when the signings of Hibbert, Hill, Green, trading for Mahinmi, and Augustin happened, but maybe someone else has a better memory than I do.

AND yes, Lowe is right that Sam Young at b/u SF in the playoffs isn't cutting it.

Did you not notice the Spurs were expecting him to cost 7-9 mil per? He got 8... Could we have possibly got him for a mil or two cheaper... Sure... But he could have also signed an offer sheet w someone else for 9... God only knows...

And I have no issue w the extra year... Unless he becomes crippled by 32 I don't see the issue... Then again... As many nagging injuries as he gets I wouldn't count that possibility entirely out...

[Slick Pinkham]

Re: Anatomy of a Deal: Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - Zach Lowe

AND yes, Lowe is right that Sam Young at b/u SF in the playoffs isn't cutting it.

It is cutting it less or more than a PG rotation of Collison / Augustin / table scraps would?

A lot more, I'd think. George Hill has deficiencies as a "pure" PG but he gives us a lot more than any recent starting PG has. George Hill is under-appreciated nationally and even by Pacers fans, relative to what we probably would have at the position. And no, saving money by not going after Gerald Green would not have landed us a starting PG, most likely.

[Ace E.Anderson]

Re: Anatomy of a Deal: Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - Zach Lowe

DC did fairly well while he was here, but our team turned the corner the second he went out with that ankle injury, and GH became our starter. I think it says something about a player and their ability to be an effective starter when they've eventually been replaced as a starter for 3 different teams; with each of those teams improving following the benching (granted when he was replaced in NO it was by an all-star in CP3)

DC would be a great bench player, and I'd love him on this team as just that. But to make it seem like he was anything more than a marginal starter while he was here is a stretch imo.

But enough about DC lol.

Advocating that there were players available at 15 that have the potential to be better than Hill is a very good argument, but 1. would any of those players fit what the Pacers system, and 2. at what point do you go with someone who is "ready" as opposed to trying to constantly develop young players in key spots.

Hill is the starting PG for the EC finalists and still developing in the PG position. Those other players available (except Leonard) are still developing their games as they sit at home and watch the rest of the NBA playoffs. If we trade Hill for either of those other players, I doubt that we're in this position right now.

You may be against trading the 15th pick for Hill, but you can't be against the results.

[Ace E.Anderson]

Re: Anatomy of a Deal: Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - Zach Lowe

Did you not notice the Spurs were expecting him to cost 7-9 mil per? He got 8... And I have no issue w the extra year... Unless he becomes crippled by 32 I don't see the issue... Then again... As many nagging injuries as he gets I wouldn't count that possibility entirely out...

Yeah take THAT to everyone that thinks the guy is ridiculously over-paid

[Strummer]

Re: Anatomy of a Deal: Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - Zach Lowe

I remember a lot of posters on PD were in favor of trading that first round pick for Anthony Randolph. I think there was a poll about it, but I can't find it. Sure glad we ended up with George Hill.

[Derek2k3]

Re: Anatomy of a Deal: Kawhi Leonard for George Hill - Zach Lowe

Interesting that you could make an argument that it's really ended up with us playing Lance instead of Leonard on the wing.

How many of us are okay with that? How many would trade Lance for Leonard straight up? Anybody who wouldn't? (I would have a tough time.)

I wouldn't, not at this point.

I'm always wary of guys that play with incredible teams (Pop, Duncan, Tony, Manu). You always wonder how their skills translate when taken out of the system that they've been developed in.

In our case, Lance is the perfect fit for us. He's the only guy, in my opinion, on our roster capable of creating mini-breaks. Made basket? Lance'll push it up court. He rebounds, defends, and pushes the ball.

Kawhi is great, but not what we need with this roster, at least not if you had to trade Lance.

Unless Lance hits the wall developmentally, his ceiling seems a bit higher than Kawhi's.