Larry and Lance. And Len.

[ptaylor2112]

I wonder if Larry Bird has taken Lance under his wing because he still remembers Len Bias.

(For you youngsters, the Celtics selected Maryland's Len Bias with the #2 pick in the 1986 draft. He died 2 days later from a cocaine overdose.) http://espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=bias

From what I recall, Bird was devastated when he heard the news.

[Pacergeek]

Re: Larry and Lance. And Len.

could be on to something here.......

[spazzxb]

Lance was never known to have any drug issues. Why tie him to this?

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

[beast23]

Re: Larry and Lance. And Len.

Lance was never known to have any drug issues. Why tie him to this?

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

According to all accounts from virtually everyone that knew him, neither was Len Bias. If their accounts were correct, Len Bias must have decided that he would try cocaine for the first time as a way of celebrating his recent drafting. For some, once is all it takes.

Edit: After reading the entire link, I see that the medical examiner was not certain that is was Bias' first episode with cocaine. He apparently had one acquaintance that said it was not. At the time, every account given said that it was his first time.

[Slick Pinkham]

Re: Larry and Lance. And Len.

I'm sure Larry's been around long enough to see lots of guys who could have been something great but didn't come even close, due to work ethic, attitude, or drugs. The 1986 draft had many such guys, but there are a few every year.

Shawne Williams might be a closer example.

[Naptown_Seth]

Re: Larry and Lance. And Len.

James White and Shawne Williams are who I would cite as GM Larry's learning point. He got burned on some gambles almost completely due to attitude. He seems hard nosed enough to not want to ever get burned that way again.


But we also need to give Lance credit for listening and working at it. You can still see that Vogel/Shaw have to "control" him during games, keep him settled when he gets a bit too hyped, etc. This is the cost of young players and why vets have so much value to counter young players "potential".

Lance seems very open to receiving this guidance and shows no sign of grinding an ax against the coaches or teammates. If anything he seems more emotionally attached to everyone through this process.


To me the credit Bird deserves is NOT drafting Lance. This means that if you wanted to repeat the success you don't just say "well I'll have the guts to take a chance too". That's like making a bet. To me Larry didn't bet on Lance, Larry FIXED THE RACE from a gambling viewpoint. He took Lance and then got involved to make it as close as possible to certain that it would be a winner.

And that's where the real credit goes. That's impressive. Larry is key, Lance's response is key, the coaches, the environment... if you are another team and want to replicate this success you better lay out a lot more foundation. The money spent to get West. The trade to get Hill. Drafting Roy and then paying him (and Hill to stay). And some luck to have Vogel's attitude ready to step in, plus getting Shaw in.

It's like an iceberg. On the surface you see "just draft Lance in round 2, take that gamble" but underneath the water is this giant mass of foundation that allows the franchise to not only take on the risk but to turn it to their favor.


This is also why I put so much stock in keeping the core together, the value of West, the value of Roy's attitude, and all the other stuff people like to toss aside when they want to chase some #4 pick that's the "next thing". To me that's the gamble, to give up big chunks of foundation for a talent scratch-off ticket (see the Antonio gamble).


And to add to this you have the prototype example - the Spurs. Just heard on SVG/Russillo today that Green had to make a phone call to Pop and basically apologize and promise to do whatever it took to get the Spurs to bring him back after cutting him. That's where the real power comes from, the guts to insist on an environment and do everything to build toward that even at the risk of losing talent.

[Trader Joe]

Re: Larry and Lance. And Len.

I recognize that Lance gives Larry a lot of credit and that's great, but I also want to give credit to his parents (by all accounts fantastic people) and to Lance himself. You don't mature like he has in 3 years just because of one guy. Lance need to give himself a pat on the back, there are guys who play in this league for their whole careers and never mature the way Lance has on and off the court. Lance comes into Mo's after almost every game and he is the most reserved person in there, almost shy, he goes to his table with his buddies, he eats and he leaves and yeah he probably goes out and parties (I know he does, so does most of the team and NBA for that matter), but as far as I know he does it responsibly. (I've talked about this with people in the know and who are around this group of Pacers a lot, this team seems to move as a group a la the 90's Pacers or at least certainly more than the early 00's Pacers did, plus they seem to have a good support system of friends that sticks with them so that's a good thing, there are certainly no risks of Lance, Paul, or anyone else hopping behind the wheel after too much drinking, etc. they behave like smart 20 somethings should)

Then you look at how he has matured on the court and it's even more amazing. Lance is about as calm as can be for a 22 year old jsut now getting his first major minutes.

JR Smith is the perfect example of a guy who will never get it the way Lance has. And Lance dserves credit for that let's not act like JR hasn't been around some strong men in his time in the NBA and he is still an immature dingleberry.

[Sandman21]

Re: Larry and Lance. And Len.

I recognize that Lance gives Larry a lot of credit and that's great, but I also want to give credit to his parents (by all accounts fantastic people) and to Lance himself. You don't mature like he has in 3 years just because of one guy. Lance need to give himself a pat on the back, there are guys who play in this league for their whole careers and never mature the way Lance has on and off the court. Lance comes into Mo's after almost every game and he is the most reserved person in there, almost shy, he goes to his table with his buddies, he eats and he leaves and yeah he probably goes out and parties (I know he does, so does most of the team and NBA for that matter), but as far as I know he does it responsibly. .

I've lost count of how many times I've seen Lance at Hooters after a game, he does the same thing there as Mo's, in fact it makes me feel for him everytime somebody sends their kid up to him asking for an autograph. Let the man eat in peace already!

[TinManJoshua]

Re: Larry and Lance. And Len.

I've lost count of how many times I've seen Lance at Hooters after a game, he does the same thing there as Mo's, in fact it makes me feel for him everytime somebody sends their kid up to him asking for an autograph. Let the man eat in peace already!

That's kind of funny, I feel the same way about celebrities. In fact, since I don't have cable, I've been going to sports bars here in Columbus to watch games. For game 4, I went to Eddie George's 27 Grille. The bartenders remember me(I'm always the only one there wearing Pacers gear and they always make me play the halftime "quiz" game) so the one I had that day said to me, "This is the craziest day I've ever seen. Eddie George has been in here before for Buckeye games but that was nothing, people won't leave him alone and he's even in the VIP room." I'm confused and a little "meh" about what's going on. So I mozy past the VIP room windows on the way to the bathroom just to see what he was talking about. Magic Johnson was in there. Earvin "Magic" Johnson. I left him alone and let him eat, because I feel like that's the right thing to do. Well, halftime comes up and it's time for the quiz game, and it's me. Right before the MC starts the game(How many fingers did Reggie hold up before the infamous choke sign, I got it right can you?) Magic agrees to take pictures for a few minutes. I was bummed for a minute, but I wasn't gonna go up there after they had already cut off the line.

Wow, that was tl;dr. Sorry.