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Pacers Heat Postgame thread

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  • #61
    Re: Pacers Heat Postgame thread

    In many ways, as Naptown Seth points out, this game was something of an anomaly. Bosh and Chalmers were uncanny, although I didn't think we impeded them much with our defense. Wade was Wade and LeBron was in his "I'm always such a team player" mode (which is his standard press statement everytime he doesn't hit his 28 point average).

    Just a few points, I'd like to make:

    1. I thought Miami was better prepared for this game than we were. Maybe it was the fact that they had a little more time to do so than we did. The commentator on TV said that the Heat had "penciled" this game in and wanted revenge. We undoubtedly saw it as an important game, but Frank going into Orlando, was making a big point of us taking the Magic seriously and that we were playing that game against the Magic first, without worrying about or looking ahead to, Miami. We did go .500 on our Florida road trip, and that's a good thing, but facing the Magic (a team that had our number the last time we played them) with that mindset only gave us one day to really get ready for Miami. It's true that Miami played Philly on Friday too (and only had 1 day to prepare as well), so I don't want to make too much of this, but I just felt Miami had a game plan going into the game with lots of new wrinkles we hadn't seen before and we came bringing only what we had used before against them. I felt like they had some surprises for us and we didn't have any for them. Frank got outcoached a tad in this game.

    2. Miami made adjustments against us that we weren't ready for. Bosh was kept out on the perimeter and Roy couldn't deal with him out there. We had no answer for him. I thought Hansbrough tried valiantly to guard him when he had him, but, due to Bosh's length, he simply couldn't do much to stop him. Roy can't guard him on the perimeter. Maybe platooning him a little by putting PG or DW on him for a while might have helped. I dunno. Bosh isn't always the lights-out shooter he was last night, but I didn't think we really did much of consequence to impede him. Putting someone else on him besides Roy that could have forced him to put the ball on the floor might have been a better tack to take. Roughing him up a little, playing him more physically than we did, might have helped too.

    3. George Hill, for some reason, just didn't show up. That's really unusual and it just can't happen again. I think our margin for error against Miami is thin. They can afford to make mistakes and have LeBron or Wade compensate. We don't have that luxury. Anyway, it seemed like when GH picked up his second foul so early, he was totally flummoxed and seemed unable to do anything right after that. He had a couple of really bad turnovers and didn't defend Chalmers well at all. Quinn Buckner kept saying more than once during the game that we let Chalmers gain confidence in his shot early. Once we let him get in his zone, he never got out of it. Also, it seemed to me that most of his 3s were basically undefended. Not good. Watching him dissect us with jumpers was extremely painful to me. In our earlier games, we totally contained him.

    4. Paul George had a very poor offensive game. We needed more than we got from him offensively. Part of it was possibly his having to deal with LeBron defensively (which is fatiguing and throws off one's shot) but part of it was psychological. Paul gave up 5 turnovers on horrible passing; gave up a blocked shot that should have been dunked; and jacked up a lot of contested 3s that didn't go in and shouldn't have been taken in the first place.

    5. Turnovers, of course, really hurt us. Paul was the worst offender but he had a lot of company. Sloppy passing, abetted by the Heat doubling and pressuring, wrecked us in the first quarter. That, and basically not being strong with the ball and having it stripped. The sequence at the end of the 1st, ending with Wade stealing the ball and making his jumper over Roy was, to me, just psychologically devastating for us. We never really recovered from that 4-point swing, which pushed the Heat lead to 9 at the end of the 1st after we had sort of clawed back and cut it to a more manageable 5.

    6. Doubling and overplaying anyone in the NBA is risky because that's supposed to mean someone is being left open. We didn't cope with their doubling and really never took advantage of the opportunities that their doubling and overplay offered. I'm not a big fan of DJ, but when he came in, he seemed to have a calming effect on us. He didn't turn it over very much and buried practically all his well-selected jumpers. I give him a lot of credit for that. It would have been an even bigger blowout if he didn't have the game he had. PG's sloppiness has to end. DW turned it over a lot too and I'm sure that galls him. I'm sure Frank will learn from how the Heat elected to attack us and we'll be better prepared for it if we chance to play them again.

    7. We need to remember that Miami is an awfully tough place to play. We have our "Temple of Doom" and they have theirs. They've only lost 3 games at home all year.

    8. There are some takeaways from this that are cheering.

    (a) They really have no answers for West and Hibbert. I think they should ALWAYS be our first options against the Heat;

    (b) Bosh and Chalmers don't usually shoot like that, and last night Ray Allen got untracked and scored 11 (we held him scoreless in our first two games) but we can't let them do again what they did to us last night. We have to force all of them to put the ball to the floor where they're less effective and our bigs can neutralize them;

    (c) Doubling and ball pressure by Miami can be prepared for and exploited. We'll certainly see it again, not only from Miami, but from all the other teams in the NBA that will be watching the film from this game. We need to be able to cope with this. Our perimeter people need to watch the film from last night, learn, and adjust.

    (d) Usually, for the Heat to win, they have to get around 50-60 points from the Wade/LeBron duo. Last night, they managed to win with LeBron posting just 13 points - a season low. That's extremely unusual. The "King" didn't need his usual 28 because Chalmers and Bosh were having great games. But nonetheless we defended LeBron pretty well. Hat's off to PG and Lance on that.

    (e) Despite everything, we're still 2-1 against Miami. Not many NBA teams can say that. It gives me reason to be optimistic.
    Last edited by IndyHoya; 03-11-2013, 11:47 AM.

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    • #62
      Re: Pacers Heat Postgame thread

      I won't say the officiating lost us the game, as we let Chalmers and Bosh go off on us. But there were some really really terrible calls last night. The non-elbow on the Lebron. The Lebron throws Lance to the ground and Lance is called for the foul. The double foul on Wade and Roy where Wade tried to run through Roy's leg. The multiple steals by Wade where he just hacks through PG's arm. The multiple illegal screens set by the Heat's big men that were never called. Lets not forget the 3 sec violations where are guys were being counted regardless if the play was coming their way or not, and Ian was called for one before the Heat even set up their offense.

      I really think we let the game get away from us when Vogel decided to start the game off with Roy on Bosh. Should have never happened. You put David West on Bosh and he doesn't start the game out hot. The Heat always try to start the game by going to Bosh.
      You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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      • #63
        Re: Pacers Heat Postgame thread

        Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
        I contend that while our defense needs to be good, our offense is the key against the Heat. Last night the Pacers had trouble making simple passes because of the Heat pressure defense, they took us out of anything we wanted to run . . . our offense will be the downfall. . .
        Originally posted by Frank Vogel View Post
        Paul George and Lance Stephenson are still very young players and their two superstars got the best of us.
        Someone help me out here, because maybe my love of Lance is skewing things. But what I saw last night is Lance never really getting any chances to run the offense. PG did, and turned it over a lot. George Hill did a little but wasn't overly impressive and sat a lot with foul trouble. DJ did, and, apart from redeeming himself with great outside shooting, didn't do much to impress in terms of running the offense.

        It's easy for Frank to ease the pain on PG and Hill, who sucked pretty bad last night, by throwing Lance to the wolves, but I'm not sure I appreciate that. I also wish Lance had more opportunities to make something happen on offense. He just gets the scraps at the end of the shot clock, or if he's lucky to get an offensive rebound.

        I've said all season that we will get by with our current initiators of the offense until a real defense cranks up against us in the playoffs. We got a taste of that last night.
        "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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        • #64
          Re: Pacers Heat Postgame thread

          Need to improve on the TOs, and handling scoring runs. Seemed like after that run at the start of the third killed the mood of the team.

          But I don't mind us going a little cold right now, pick it up at the end of the regular season and go (Eddie White) rrrrroolllllinnn into the playoffs.
          Forever struggling to convince myself "In Larry we trust"
          Writer at NoseBleedSectionSports.com

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          • #65
            Re: Pacers Heat Postgame thread

            I thought the Pacers-Heat and Celtics-Thunder games last night kind of mirrored each other in that two teams that work super hard and play well together (Indy and Boston) were just outmatched by the superior talent of OKC and Miami. Those two teams are on another level when it comes to talent and athleticism, it's hard to make up that ground with just defense and effort. Without Granger playing at a REALLY high level I don't see a way the Pacers can get into that top tier of contenders.

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            • #66
              Re: Pacers Heat Postgame thread

              The heat were just too good. Shot unreal from 3 and long/midrange generally shots we prefer them taking. Defensively they read us really well, pressured us and predicted our passes. Im not even talking about the TOs, too many deflected passes that wont show up in the stat sheet but disrupts our offensive rhythm. Then its hard to win against this team. Got to hand it to them though the defending champs are very very good.

              But like some have said already, if we play them again, it wont be until a while. For now, we have to put ourselves in the position to play them again later. the 2-3-4 race with NY and Nets is close and only 0.5 game separate 5-7 seeds. Miami isnt of our concerns for now. Lets move on from this

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              • #67
                Re: Pacers Heat Postgame thread

                The refs were against us. Every point and possession counts. The non-flagrant foul on Lance, and the questionable holding foul on Ian at the end of the half ruined our momentum
                Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

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                • #68
                  Re: Pacers Heat Postgame thread

                  Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
                  quotes

                  http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/0...didnt-compete/
                  It's not an excuse, but other than West and Danny (who I honestly have no hope for ever being anything more than a spot shooter again), it sorta gets lost in the shuffle how young this team is. Hill's still just barely capable of being an actual point guard, which hurt plenty tonight, Lance and PG are friggin 22, Roy's 26. I don't know, maybe I'm trying to rationalize, but building a REAL contender in our market with our assets is a long, long, term process.

                  I will say I'm not all that worried about keeping Danny. If he wants to stay and become strictly a shooter, great. If some team gets foolish and looks at what he used to be and offers him a bundle, hey, thanks Danny and I don't blame you.
                  No offense, but I just don't understand this and you're not alone. It seems like most of the board went from wanting Granger to start to giving up on him forever in week. He played 5 limited games, it takes time. He might not contribute this year but I think the Pacers still plan on it.
                  He might become only a spot up shooter but I'd take the bet that returns to form a lot more then that. It just takes more then 5 games.
                  Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

                  Comment

                  • #69
                    Re: Pacers Heat Postgame thread

                    People saying this proves the Heat are significantly better than us, that we need roster changes before we can compete with them, etc are being as reactionary as ESPN. They won by 14 at home in a game where they got the best game of the season from their 5th option and our team just came out flat from the beginning. There is little to draw from one regular season game, especially when you consider that we dominated them in 67% of the regular season games this year.

                    They laid an egg, but I'm fairly confident Vogel would've made a few more adjustments if this was a playoff game. No sense in showing your counter to the Heat's now tipped hand. We know what they're going to try to do. If they think Wade/Allen can guard PG in a 7 game series, please continue to believe that.

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                    • #70
                      Re: Pacers Heat Postgame thread

                      We (as in PD) blame the refs TOO much after losses. WE LOST TO A BETTER TEAM!! It happens. There's no reason to hang your head, expecially considering the fact that we still won the season series with two double digit wins here at BLF.

                      But just because we're called for more fouls, doesn't mean "the refs were against us". Do i think that the Heat receive preferential treatment? Yes I do. But I also feel that we play a physical style of basketball (for today's standards) so sometimes more fouls are called.

                      But the fact that we kept turning the ball over unnecessarily, couldn't stop Mario Chalmers (ugh) from scoring, and our AS had a bad bad shooting night, are the reasons we lost the game. Not the refs.

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                      • #71
                        Re: Pacers Heat Postgame thread

                        There were a lot of turnovers because the number one reason is that Wade and Lebron knew what was coming next, the Pacers offense is either give the ball to Roy down low, a pick and roll play between Hill and West and a lot of West ISO's, the Pacers don't have other options, I still don't understand why Vogel doesn't try something else.
                        @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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                        • #72
                          Re: Pacers Heat Postgame thread

                          Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
                          Someone help me out here, because maybe my love of Lance is skewing things. But what I saw last night is Lance never really getting any chances to run the offense. PG did, and turned it over a lot. George Hill did a little but wasn't overly impressive and sat a lot with foul trouble. DJ did, and, apart from redeeming himself with great outside shooting, didn't do much to impress in terms of running the offense.

                          It's easy for Frank to ease the pain on PG and Hill, who sucked pretty bad last night, by throwing Lance to the wolves, but I'm not sure I appreciate that. I also wish Lance had more opportunities to make something happen on offense. He just gets the scraps at the end of the shot clock, or if he's lucky to get an offensive rebound.

                          I've said all season that we will get by with our current initiators of the offense until a real defense cranks up against us in the playoffs. We got a taste of that last night.
                          To be fair, Lance looked rattled last night. Even my girl at the game was like "that guy looks like he wants nothing to do with LeBron." He hardly ever tried to drive or dribble the ball for more than 2 seconds with LeBron following his every move with the size he had on him. Lance seemed to try and take advantage a little bit when someone else was guarding him, but by then it seemed like he was a little bit off his game.

                          Overall I'm just glad we saw the heat play their hand. They brought an entirely new game plan to the Pacers and we have plenty of time to adjust should we ever face them in playoffs.

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                          • #73
                            Re: Pacers Heat Postgame thread

                            Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                            There were a lot of turnovers because the number one reason is that Wade and Lebron knew what was coming next, the Pacers offense is either give the ball to Roy down low, a pick and roll play between Hill and West and a lot of West ISO's, the Pacers don't have other options, I still don't understand why Vogel doesn't try something else.
                            I don't disagree with this. However, what is Vogel supposed to try? PG couldn't get a shot to fall and wouldn't take the ball inside. Bosh was killing the Ps and we had no answer for his outside the paint game. When Hill got the 2nd foul, LeBron kept Lance from being the primary playmaker. DJ hit some jump shots, but is almost useless running an offense. Against the Heat last night, the sloppy passing and lack of ball movement came home to roost. You have to dance with ones what brought you, and Frank has no viable point guard once Hill leaves the game. PG as the point forward was a good try, but he didn't produce, so we were stagnant. My biggest question was why we didn't post PG every time down the floor with Wade on him. When the Heat switched Haslem on Paul he should have been able to drive around him on every possession. With PG not being himself, LeBron was free to roam on defense, keep Lance out of the paint and wreak havoc on our sloppy passing. JMHO. Maybe a good lesson for the guys? We beat the Heat twice pretty easily but the last game means nothing in the NBA. Every game is a whole new season!

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                            • #74
                              Re: Pacers Heat Postgame thread

                              I felt like our offense was, unfortunately, what it has been for most of the year, including being riddled with turnovers and settling for too many jump shots.

                              The problem comes when the defense is not at its best because the offense can't bail us out except in extreme circumstances.

                              I think we need to be fighting for the second seed so we have teams with a lower hype factor to focus on as potential first- and second-round opponents. If we can get to the ECF and make a series out of it (win the home games and take it to 7) I think it will be considered a successful year by most fans.
                              BillS

                              A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                              Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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                              • #75
                                Re: Pacers Heat Postgame thread

                                Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
                                I hope that anyone thinking our best plan was to develop OJ and Lance further before the playoffs watched this game. We're going to be a threat but we need Granger to stand a chance against the Heat in a series. Maybe PG has a better game next time but Lebron looked like he was laying back. PG and Lance can't handle Wade and Lebron and OJ nor Green are going to develop enough in the next 20 games.
                                Let's hope Granger is back Wed. and sticks this time.

                                No you don't need Granger, you need a healthy Granger which I don't see happening the rest of the season. Too many people have counted on a healthy Granger coming back... including Walsh. I've said b4 Granger wasn't coming back in a savior roll to help the Pacers. Walsh put all his eggs in the basket that Granger was the best player the Pacers could get at TD. That view is going to come home to bite the Pacers. Walsh and fans need to understand just what kind of a Granger they will get IF he can return. It's not the Granger of old which so many have expected. It's going to be only a small fraction of what Granger has been in the past IF he can return at all. People need to concentrate on the other players and what they need to do to make this team better instead of fixating on how Granger is going to improve this team. To me, the season is too far gone for Granger to be effective helping the Pacers. I've seen nothing that indicates Granger can be more effective the rest of the year than having acquired a Redick or whoever. NOTHING!

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