Re: Slow your roll
Thanks for making my point.
Originally posted by Naptown_Seth
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Nice paraphrasing, as always. Just useless posts anymore.
So for the interest of the discussion, and with the previous post doing nothing to hide my enthusiasm for the current team (for reasons that should be obvious, but for some sadly isn't), the specific comparison was that IF IF IF IF...
If you have a team kicking butt with Danny returned and making a Finals run (or close), then you KEEP THEM TOGETHER. You don't trade Stockton or Malone because the Jazz lost in the WCF or something. See any sensible non-troll knows that the comparison is not between Hill and Stockton or Paul and Stockton, but between the idea of keeping or bailing on a group of vet players that are playing elite ball simply because they came up just short.
See Vnzla wants to justify wanting to dismantle this team even after a win over Miami or NYK. The last thing he wants is to lose face as a rebuilding genius. But the problem is that he's in the wrong paradigm. This team stopped rebuilding when they resigned Hill and Roy. They looked at what the starting 5 did last year and said "keep this together and try to touch up the bench". That's the type of moves you make when you are at the top.
The Bad Boys spent FOUR YEARS not making the Finals. 1st round, 2nd round, 1st round, ECF.
After losing in the 1st round did they decide to not resign Isiah, Dumars, Laimbeer, Mahorn or Vinnie Johnson? Nope. Sure Vinnie was 29 and they already had Isiah and Dumars as star guards. Sure Bill was 28 by then and as a slow, banging PF wasn't going to be able to keep pace with athletic teams like the Lakers.
Nope. Those stupid Pistons went and got 30 year old, over the hill Dantley to join them and play big minutes (hmm, seems kinda "West" like). And then they lost in the ECF for a 4th year of not even being the #1 loser.
But then they cleaned house ala Vnzla, I mean really looked into the mirror and saw their limitations and doubled down on them. They took 31 year old Vinnie and Dantley, 30 year old Laimbeer, and 29 year old Mahorn right back at it and lost in the Finals.
Okay, 5 straight flops (by insane standards) so finally they cleared out all the old losers and...kept the same group together yet again. The only major change was the mid-season trade of 32 year old Dantley for 29 year old Aguirre. Not draft picks, they didn't tank, they didn't let big contracts expire to go get brand new star FAs even though their own stars had come up short year after year after year.
And they won the Finals with a 31 year old PF Laimbeer and a 32 year old SG Microwave. And then they did it again the next year with all the same guys except Mahorn who's minutes were basically replaced by 34 year old James Edwards.
But god forbid I want to keep Danny and West with the group after a 1st round playoff followed by a 2nd round playoff loss while they are screwing around and working into a top 3 EC record.
I don't want to hear about roster strategies that would have dismantled the Bad Boys 3-4 years before they won their first title. Hell, they didn't even fire Chuck Daly. They just kept plugging at it with their go-to guys and didn't panic into "SELL THE FARM" mode.
And anyone with reading comprehension knows this doesn't mean that the Pacers WILL win a title or multiple titles. What it means is that once you've got a group together that COULD win a title, which describes the Pistons for the 5 years prior to winning a title, the smart bet is to keep it together as much as possible. Think about the FORESIGHT Detroit had to have to stick with that group even as they were being turned away year after year, and not even with forward progress since they went from 1st to 2nd back to the 1st round again.
They were stuck as also-rans until their perseverance and defensive chemistry panned out.
So for the interest of the discussion, and with the previous post doing nothing to hide my enthusiasm for the current team (for reasons that should be obvious, but for some sadly isn't), the specific comparison was that IF IF IF IF...
If you have a team kicking butt with Danny returned and making a Finals run (or close), then you KEEP THEM TOGETHER. You don't trade Stockton or Malone because the Jazz lost in the WCF or something. See any sensible non-troll knows that the comparison is not between Hill and Stockton or Paul and Stockton, but between the idea of keeping or bailing on a group of vet players that are playing elite ball simply because they came up just short.
See Vnzla wants to justify wanting to dismantle this team even after a win over Miami or NYK. The last thing he wants is to lose face as a rebuilding genius. But the problem is that he's in the wrong paradigm. This team stopped rebuilding when they resigned Hill and Roy. They looked at what the starting 5 did last year and said "keep this together and try to touch up the bench". That's the type of moves you make when you are at the top.
The Bad Boys spent FOUR YEARS not making the Finals. 1st round, 2nd round, 1st round, ECF.
After losing in the 1st round did they decide to not resign Isiah, Dumars, Laimbeer, Mahorn or Vinnie Johnson? Nope. Sure Vinnie was 29 and they already had Isiah and Dumars as star guards. Sure Bill was 28 by then and as a slow, banging PF wasn't going to be able to keep pace with athletic teams like the Lakers.
Nope. Those stupid Pistons went and got 30 year old, over the hill Dantley to join them and play big minutes (hmm, seems kinda "West" like). And then they lost in the ECF for a 4th year of not even being the #1 loser.
But then they cleaned house ala Vnzla, I mean really looked into the mirror and saw their limitations and doubled down on them. They took 31 year old Vinnie and Dantley, 30 year old Laimbeer, and 29 year old Mahorn right back at it and lost in the Finals.
Okay, 5 straight flops (by insane standards) so finally they cleared out all the old losers and...kept the same group together yet again. The only major change was the mid-season trade of 32 year old Dantley for 29 year old Aguirre. Not draft picks, they didn't tank, they didn't let big contracts expire to go get brand new star FAs even though their own stars had come up short year after year after year.
And they won the Finals with a 31 year old PF Laimbeer and a 32 year old SG Microwave. And then they did it again the next year with all the same guys except Mahorn who's minutes were basically replaced by 34 year old James Edwards.
But god forbid I want to keep Danny and West with the group after a 1st round playoff followed by a 2nd round playoff loss while they are screwing around and working into a top 3 EC record.
I don't want to hear about roster strategies that would have dismantled the Bad Boys 3-4 years before they won their first title. Hell, they didn't even fire Chuck Daly. They just kept plugging at it with their go-to guys and didn't panic into "SELL THE FARM" mode.
And anyone with reading comprehension knows this doesn't mean that the Pacers WILL win a title or multiple titles. What it means is that once you've got a group together that COULD win a title, which describes the Pistons for the 5 years prior to winning a title, the smart bet is to keep it together as much as possible. Think about the FORESIGHT Detroit had to have to stick with that group even as they were being turned away year after year, and not even with forward progress since they went from 1st to 2nd back to the 1st round again.
They were stuck as also-rans until their perseverance and defensive chemistry panned out.
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