Tweet
Re: Biggest Pacer's Bust and Surprise in History????
Yeah, Stipanovich made the All-Rookie First Team back in 1984.
Yeah, Stipanovich made the All-Rookie First Team back in 1984.
The Rules of Pacers Digest
Hello everyone,
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"
"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?"
In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*""Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?
"In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less
-
Turner and Young are THE FUTURE!
-
Re: Biggest Pacer's Bust and Surprise in History????
But they are talking about injuries so he is a bust by some folks definition here. I certainly put him ahead of Bender in the "bust" catagory and Wayman Tisdale ahead of both of them..... Tisdale wasn't hurt, he just wasn't very good......Originally posted by DangerGranger3pointranger View Post
Comment
-
Re: Biggest Pacer's Bust and Surprise in History????
Stipo was certainly not a bust, SOLID player, career cut short by injury. I remember him hitting like 3 or 4 game winners in a season. Rik and Stipo would have been a great combo far many years, to bad he retired the same year we got Rik.
Bender not really bust either, what a talent, what a shame.
Wayman Tisdale, although I was a big fan and he was a great human being, he has to be consider some what of a bust. He was one of the most dominant collage players ever, most though he'd be a absolute beast in the NBA, never really happened.
McCloud, I remember Dick Versace saying we just drafted a 6'8" PG all excitedly, comparing him to Magic Johnson. Man what a bust. Dude once sprained his ankle while talking on the phone.
Antonio Davis has to be one of the biggest surprises, 2nd round pick > to quality player > to allstar."Just look at the flowers ........ BANG" - Carol "The Walking Dead"Comment
-
Re: Biggest Pacer's Bust and Surprise in History????
Eight Common Profiles of a Bust by: David Mosley - Staff Writer April 30, 2004
1. The Overrated College Star - He repeatedly carried his team to the NCAA tournament, he was selected to All-Conference and All-American teams, and he can't dribble with his left hand. WHAT? In every draft, there are a few college all-stars with all the accolades and awards who just can't make the transition from great college player to great NBA player. What is the problem here? Maybe it was the program and the amazing surrounding talent that enabled an average player to look much better than he really was. How many Duke players have we seen in recent years who were unbelievable in college but just average in the pros? Some players are just great college players and that's it. However, every June some general manager will cave into the pressure of drafting one of these guys based purely off of their college careers and not off of pure talent.
Recent Examples: Mateen Cleaves 14th pick in 2000, Trajan Langdon 11th pick in 1999, Ed O'Bannon 9th pick in 1995, Calbert Cheaney 6th pick in 1993, Mark Macon 8th pick in 1991
Possible fits in 2004: Jameer Nelson, Josh Childress, Luke Jackson
2. The Tweener - Whether it's the combo guard, the diminutive shooting guard, the slow small forward or the undersized power forwards and centers, the Tweeners can often cause NBA general managers headaches of enormous proportions. There is nothing like watching a 6'2 college shooting guard jack up 7 shots in 6 minutes while playing backup point guard, or watching a 6'6 college power forward get continuously dusted by a mediocre NBA small forward. The Tweener usually starts out as a lottery pick because he has been using his Charles Barkley height (add 2 inches) all through college. Once the scouts find out the Tweener's true height though, his stock can drop faster than Paris Hilton's underwear. That is until one naive team is convinced they can mold him into a different position. D'oh! That's when we have the makings of a bust. The only successful Tweeners are the ones who were allowed to play their natural positions, such as Allen Iverson, Charles Barkey, and Larry Johnson.
Recent Examples: Kirk Haston 16th pick in 2001, Keyon Dooling 10th pick in 2000, Shawn Respert 8th pick in 1995, Khalid Reeves 12th pick in 1994
Possible fits in 2004: Ben Gordon, Devin Harris, Kris Humphries
3. The Stiff - The Stiff is the butt of everyone's favorite jokes the big 7-foot stiffs. Every team has one on the end of the bench. They are usually nothing more than overpaid practice dummies with a goofy smile and a bad haircut. Fans always ask: what idiot wasted a lottery pick on that stiff on the bench? We all know that teams are always looking for a center. You can't teach heightright? Well, maybe so, but you can teach general managers to stop wasting good picks on fouls for Shaq. Stop the madness. Enough already!
Recent Examples: Chris Mihm 7th pick in 2000, Joel Przybilla 8th pick in 2000, Alek Redojevic 12th pick in 1999, Vitaly Potapenko 12th pick in 1996, Todd Fuller 12th pick in 1996
Possible fits in 2004: Pavel Podkolzine, Kosta Perovic, Andrew Bogut
4. The I Told You You're Not Ready Kids – Unfortunately, more and more young kids are being pushed into the NBA by greedy agents, greedy family members and/or dumb friends. Sometimes these kids are ready to make the jump, but often, they are not. Many of these kids often take 4 or 5 years before they start to produce in the NBA. The problem is that not all teams are willing to wait that long, and these kids end up getting traded from team to team, destroying their fragile egos. In some of the least favorable cases, kids are outright waived and must then rely on the cutthroat world of minor league ball to get back to the NBA. These players are now the toughest players for teams to evaluate because it's nearly impossible to project how a kid will react to the rigors of the NBA. Many times, these players can't even qualify as busts because by draft day, their stock has dropped so low that they end up getting drafted in the 2nd round, like Omar Cook, James Lang, Ousmane Cisse or even worse, undrafted like DeAngelo Collins.
Recent Examples: Sagana Diop 8th pick in 2001, Rodney White 9th pick in 2001, Jonathan Bender 5th pick in 2001, Leon Smith 29th pick in 1999
Possible fits in 2004: Sebastian Telfair, Ivan Chiriaev, JR Smith
5. The Workout Warriors - These are the guys that nobody pegged as a lottery pick or even a 1st rounder in April, but by June, they have miraculously worked their way up every team's draft board. It all starts with a good showing at one of the pre-draft workouts, followed by amazing individual workouts, highlighted by fast 40 yard dash times, unreal vertical leaps, and an amazing game of H-O-R-S-E versus the team's assistant coaching staff. Unfortunately, everyone overlooked actual game tape of the player or the fact that he hasn't averaged double digits since high school. Nope, all that matters is the fact that he dunked a ball 42 times in row or he dribbled through cones like a globetrotter. Of course, once the season starts, reality sets in and we all realize we've been duped.
Recent Examples: Kedrick Brown 11th pick in 2001, Steven Hunter 15th pick in 2001, Antonio Daniels 4th pick in 1997.
Possible fits in 2004: I'll let you know in June.
6. The Athlete - He's got a body that would make the Rock jealous, he can dunk over a refrigerator, and he outran a zebra on Man vs. Beast 6. Now, if we could only teach him to shoot and dribble The Athlete is always drafted on his potential and not on actual basketball talent. Usually, his scouting report reads, Great defender, quick feet, unbelievable first step, amazing leaping ability, needs to work on ball handling and shooting, low basketball IQ. I don't know about you, but I'll take smart guys who can shoot and dribble over the Athlete any day.
Recent Examples: Stromile Swift 2nd pick in 2000, Jerome Moiso 11th pick in 2000, Donnell Harvey 22nd in 2000, Corey Benjamin 28th pick in 1999, Tariq Abdul Wahad 11th pick in 1997
Possible fits in 2004: Josh Smith, JR Smith
7. The Knucklehead - The Knucklehead is the most frustrating of all the busts. They have the talent that makes scouts drool - the vertical, the jumper, the handles - but they also have more baggage than Bobby Brown. Sometimes it's a drug problem, sometimes it's the crowd they run with, sometimes it's selling stolen cell phones out of the truck of their car, and sometimes it's nothing more than pure laziness. Whatever the reason, it's enough to send a sane general manager to the top floor of the crazy ward.
Recent Examples: Eddie Griffin 7th pick in 2001, Joe Forte 21st pick in 2001, William Avery 14th pick in 1999, Tim Thomas 7th pick in 1997, and last but not least, Mr. Cell phone Isiah Rider 5th pick in 1993
Possible fits in 2004: Ivan Chiriaev, David Harrison
8. The Clones - Every time a revolutionary player comes along, general managers spend years trying to find the next so and so. Teams wasted pick after pick in the 80's and 90's looking for the next Michael Jordan. Every point guard over 6'6 is going to be the next Magic Johnson, every center over 300 pounds is nicknamed Baby Shaq, and now any 7-foot European player who has ever made a 3-pointer is the next Dirk Nowitzki. Over the next few years, you will see teams scouring Asia looking for the next Yao Ming and you will hear the phrase the next LeBron more times than you care to count. Of course, along the way, teams will find great players, but too often, they will discover that you can't duplicate revolutionary players.
Recent Examples: Countless European players from the last few drafts, Harold Miner (the next Jordan) 12th pick in 1992, George McCloud (the next Magic) 7th pick in 1989, Randy White (the next Karl Malone) 8th pick in 1989
Possible fits in 2004: Ha-Seung Jin, Tiago Splitter
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz222NWHz84
http://www.draftexpress.com
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/...-of-a-Bust-37/Comment
-
Re: Biggest Pacer's Bust and Surprise in History????
Sports Card Bust #25: Jonathan Bender
The annual McDonald's All-American game features some of the brightest talents on the court each year. So when you're named the game's MVP, you know you've got game.
Here are just a few winners of this prestigious award: Alonzo Mourning, Shaquille O'Neal, Chris Webber, Kevin Garnett, Jonathan Bender, Lebron James, Dwight Howard, Kevin Durant, and Tyreke Evans.
You can see that a couple are HOF bound, while the others are well on their way to making a name for themselves in the NBA. However, stuck right in between KG and Prince James is the recipient of the 1999 McDonald's All-American MVP award: Mr. Jonathan Bender.
Before the draft, Mr. Bender was compared to Kevin Garnett because of his athleticism, size, and all around game. He ended up being drafted with the 5th pick in the 1999 NBA draft by the Toronto Raptors, who immediately shipped him off to Indiana for veteran forward Antonio Davis.
Right out of the gate, Mr. Bender became the first high school draftee to score double digits in his first game. In 2001, he participated in the NBA Slam Dunk contest, but didn't qualify for the finals. He played 237 games over a 7 year span for the Pacers. Unfortunately knee injuries forced him to retire.
He made a short comeback last season with the New York Knicks. During this short stint, he played 25 games, averaging 4.7 ppg. In the end, Mr. Bender only started a total of 28 games in his career, while averaging a miniscule 5.5 ppg/3.3 rpg/0.6 apg.
If you type "NBA draft busts of all-time" into Google, you'll find several lists with Jonathan Bender's name on it. Back in 1999, I was really into basketball cards... and I bought a ton of his stuff. Here... take a little peek at my purchases (which I'm sure I paid top $ for):
On the court, he may have been a huge draft bust. However off the court, it's a different story. In 2006, he established the Jonathan Bender Foundation to empower the children in his community after the suffered the devastating effects of Hurricane Katrina.
Okay... now for today's question of the day: Do you think anyone from the 1999 NBA Draft will make it into the NBA HOF?
After checking out the 1999 NBA draft, I noticed that there are a lot of GOOD players, but there aren't aren't any GREAT players. Elton Brand, Steve Francis, Shawn Marion, Baron Davis, Manu Ginobili, Ron Artest, Richard Hamilton, and Lamar Odom were all drafted that year. Can you see any of these guys in the HOF?Comment
-
Re: Biggest Pacer's Bust and Surprise in History????
After checking out the 1999 NBA draft, I noticed that there are a lot of GOOD players, but there aren't aren't any GREAT players. Elton Brand, Steve Francis, Shawn Marion, Baron Davis, Manu Ginobili, Ron Artest, Richard Hamilton, and Lamar Odom were all drafted that year. Can you see any of these guys in the HOF?[/QUOTE]
No.......
Comment
-
Re: Biggest Pacer's Bust and Surprise in History????
Bust: Malik Sealy
Most Surprising: Jeff FosterComment
-
Re: Biggest Pacer's Bust and Surprise in History????
Tisdale, in college, was a 6'7" C. (Sure, he was listed at 6'9", but he wasn't taller than Kellogg or Person.) He had a super nice post game. That did not translate to the NBA, where at his size he needed to play SF but his skills were more of C or perhaps PF. Thus he found himself as the sixth man because he struggled with match ups.
Was he a bust?
He didn't live up to where he was drafted. But his mismatch of size and skills wasn't that difficult to predict. He was a multi-time college star because he wasn't an undersized C in college. In the NBA, he was just another man among men.
First class citizen though. I don't want to call him a bust but his tweener-forward size and low post skill sets certainly bothered him more than in college where he was dominant (especially against a weak Big 8 conference during that era.)
The idea that Stipo was a bust just astounds me. If Bill Laimbeer's career was shortened to four seasons, would he be a bust? There were similar players with similar numbers, and Laimbeer got the benefit of playing with an all-world backcourt and didn't spend most of his career being coached by George Freakin' Irvine. No, Stipo was a legit starting C who's career ending injury set the team back a few years. He was a remarkably consistent 13-8 guy who, prior to the serious knee problems, only missed 7 games in five seasons and was a key reason the team made the '87 playoffs and barely missed the '88 playoffs when he finally played for a good coach. Blame his injury, but don't call him a bust.Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you
Comment
-
I would agree with Sarunas. I really liked him too.Originally posted by BornReady View PostThis might be an unpopular choice, but to be honest, I had REALLY high hopes for Sarunas Jasikevicius. Well est. top PG in Europe decided to play with us, but to little to no avail
Jermaine O'Neal takes the cake for surprise.
Sent from #PacerNation using TapatalkSenior at the University of Louisville.
Greenfield ---> The VilleComment
-
Re: Biggest Pacer's Bust and Surprise in History????
Bender would have been a bust, even if he was never injured.Originally posted by PaulGeorge View Post"Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference
Comment
-
Re: Biggest Pacer's Bust and Surprise in History????
I don't agree with that. He was developing. He came straight out of high school. He could shoot and he could was very athletic. I think he would have been a very good player....Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
Comment
-
Re: Biggest Pacer's Bust and Surprise in History????
So, why didn't we let him start?Originally posted by Sandman21 View Post
"Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference
Comment
-
Re: Biggest Pacer's Bust and Surprise in History????
No.......Originally posted by OlBlu View Post[/QUOTE]
I can see Ginobli in the Hall of Fame."Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference
Comment
-
Re: Biggest Pacer's Bust and Surprise in History????
Yes, he could shoot and was athletic.Originally posted by OlBlu View PostI don't agree with that. He was developing. He came straight out of high school. He could shoot and he could was very athletic. I think he would have been a very good player....
He was not a gamer. He had no sense of the game. He couldn't defend. Terrible bball IQ. Arguably, he never got passed that deer in the headlights syndrome."Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference
Comment
-
Re: Biggest Pacer's Bust and Surprise in History????
I can see Ginobli in the Hall of Fame.[/QUOTE]Originally posted by McKeyFan View PostNo.......
No....
Comment
Comment