The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Article about David Harrison...

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  • Article about David Harrison...

    By Scott Schroeder

    Jul 17, 2012 - LAS VEGAS -- David Harrison is playing for the Dallas Mavericks' Summer League team in Vegas and, while he was far from a superstar during his four-year NBA career, it seems many of those in attendance remember quite vividly the career he had with the Indiana Pacers.

    Unfortunately, the majority remembers him for all of the wrong reasons.

    The 7-foot center out of Colorado, who turns 30 in August, looks like an NBA player due to his blend of skills, size and considerable talents in the low post. That's a combination very few players possess outside of the NBA, but one that Harrison currently finds himself in, while averaging a rather pedestrian 16 minutes, six points (6-of-8 from the field), five fouls and three rebounds through his current team's first two games in Vegas.

    Nevertheless, and despite numerous setbacks, the big man is hoping this most recent comeback works out after biding his time in China and the D-League ever since his NBA departure.

    "I have to take a different route back because my way out of the NBA was a little more dramatic than most," Harrison told on Monday. "For me, it's just consistency according to Coach [Rick] Carlisle. I'm coming in, doing my work and showing that I still have the ability to play at this level. Now I'm just hoping there's a team out there that will forgive and forget."

    The forgiving portion of that request is probably possible, but figuring out how to forget about the reasons for which Harrison's currently out of the NBA is going to be the hard part.

    "I was present for the brawl [better known as the Malice at the Palace], the shootings, suspended for drugs and eventually kicked out of the league," Harrison says. "Man, I've been through everything and luckily I'm still here and just am being given another opportunity."

    He's right about that, too, as very few players who averaged five points per outing over the course of 189 career games are given a second chance four years later. It's even rarer considering the past transgressions -- that seem to be part 'wrong place, wrong time' and part 'bad decisions' -- and the fact the he decided to speak quite freely about his problem with marijuana usage at the time of his five-game drug suspension.

    "I went to a really liberal school with a lot of ideals and I guess I just had a belief ... and it was wrong," Harrison said. "A lot of things I acted like a child about. I kept saying 'they, they, they' instead of looking internally. Now it's like I look back on my life where I could be and I'm not remorseful or regretful. I'm just ready to move forward and I guess I just wish it was that easy."

    "It's not," Harrison warns. "People don't trust you, people are going to always think negative things about you so you just have to try to stay positive and move on with your life. Now that I look back on it -- as I read about my life on the Internet, as I see people shocked to see me alive and other things like that -- it's like nobody ever really knew me."

    In fact, it seems that very few people have really gotten to know Harrison, but those that have find him to be an affable, interesting, well-spoken dude who just happens to play basketball. Current Dallas Mavericks head coach Rick Carlisle sees that in him, too, and apparently values his basketball talent more than the off-court incidents.

    "When I was there with Coach Carlisle, every day he would teach me how to play the game," Harrison said. "He taught me how to watch film. I love the game of basketball, but after he left, coach [Jim] O'Brien and I really didn't get along.
    "Rick Carlisle, though, he's been one of the best people for me. Even when I wasn't playing for him a couple of seasons ago, he pulled me aside and after a game and gave me up a pep talk so I know he's always wanted me to do well," Harrison said. "I really wish I could have stayed with him longer because I know my career would have developed better. My development's on me, though, so that's nobody else's fault."

    Speaking of development, Harrison ended up playing for the Reno Bighorns of the NBA Development League to end this past season, where he'd meet up with another coach -- longtime NBA big man Paul Mokeski. That has helped him out as he attempts to reform his image.

    "Everybody knows I'm such an extrovert and I can speak so well, but I'm really sheltered. ... I don't like being out there, but I like being around people I know," Harrison said. "In the D-League, it was a bunch of players I knew and Coach Mokeski. He's been in trouble and he's mentored me for awhile about how to keep my head up and keep moving forward and just stay away from the negative, so it was nice to play there. I met people I needed to meet there and if I have to go back, I'll go back."

    The NBA is obviously the goal for the former Indiana Pacers big man, however, and he's taking a realistic approach of getting there.

    "I'm sick of everybody asking me what team I play for because I don't have an answer. Hopefully one day the timing will work out, a spot will open up and I'll be able to play in the league again ... but I don't want to future trip," Harrison said. "I got a game on Wednesday and there I just gotta keep a focus on keeping my demeanor and trying to be a leader and helping us win games. I've been around too long to get in trouble by looking too far ahead."

    It's interesting that Harrison noted that he needs to keep his demeanor and be a leader because, according to multiple people evaluating the talent out in Vegas, those are his two biggest issues. And, luckily for him, they're issues he's aware of and trying to fix -- especially the on-court demeanor, as Mavericks blogger Rob Mahoney pointed that it's a huge problem during his recap of Monday's game.

    David Harrison certainly has the potential to be a nice player, but is distractingly emotive to both himself and observers. He reacts demonstratively to virtually every call that goes against him or the team, occasionally to the point where his teammates are forced to counsel him on-court. That's not necessarily a problem beyond remedy, but it's a turnoff in a competitive business with so many comparable talents.

    Harrison responds to that criticism with an honest, self-aware approach that seems pretty understandable when looking at it from an outsider's perspective.

    "I've never ever had a good time playing basketball when it comes to being between me and the officials," Harrison said. "I'm the biggest person out there so even when I get hit in the face or get tripped and it's not a foul, but when a guy falls down, it's a foul on me. It always feels like I'm being picked on, but I know I can't take that approach."

    "There's sometimes, you know, when it's just like 'what are you calling!?'" Harrison continued. "But I have to remember that I'm not in the position to do that and if I'm in there for two or three minutes and get a technical? That's terrible. So I just shut my mouth and maybe it comes out in my facial expressions, but it's something I've gotta do."

    The other portion he's working on is becoming a leader because, now that he's nearly 30 and with plenty of life experience, he has a lot to offer younger players who likely won't face anything close to the sort of issues Harrison has thus far in his basketball career.

    "It's weird because everybody remembers me for some reason," Harrison said. "They also ask me and I say 'y'all can do what you want, but this is what's going to happen.'"

    It sounds like that phase began this season in the D-League, too, as he joined the team while rookie Josh Selby was on assignment from the Memphis Grizzlies.

    "While I was out in Reno I was playing with friends because I knew Andre Emmett, Antoine Wright and Josh Selby," Harrison said before going into his scouting report on the Memphis Grizzlies' young guard.

    "That little boy is really good and I hope he gets a chance to show it one day," Harrison said. "He's like a one and a two. He's very talented and very intelligent. People go at him about some of his past issues and he takes it like a man. Where I personally would've tried to fight someone, he acts like a grown-up ... and I'm pretty proud of him for that."

    Harrison probably wishes he could've acted like that during his NBA exit, but at least he seems to have learned from that mistake.

    "It's all about the way I handled it," Harrison realizes. "I attacked. I didn't take any blame. I didn't act like an adult. It was just a bunch of things and I didn't have enough guidance to get me out of it. Every day -- every day -- since then I've just been fighting an uphill battle that I can't give up."

    Whether or not Harrison makes it back to the promised land remains to be seen, but there's no doubt he's in a better place mentally now than he was the last time he found himself on an NBA roster
    .................................................. .................................................. ................................

    A couple of things came to mind when reading this.

    1. Actions speak louder than words and from what I read it seems like the same old same old.

    2. This may be the one time I don't give O'Brien grief from a former player complaining about him. Although once again it is just so very odd that players so openly complain about him.

    I am not sure who I consider to be the biggest dissapointment of the three. Tinsley, Bender & Harrison all had potential and real talent yet none of them ever delivered on it (please spare me the Bender was injured speech, I've heard it before & all I can say is that while he had injuries that wasn't what held him back)

    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  • #2
    Re: Article about David Harrison...

    I like David. As a guy more than a player, but i do like David. But I thought kinda the same thing as your first point. He says the word that he was wrong, but they sound like just words. He sounds like the 16-yr old kid that dented the family car. Yes, it's my fault, but . . . and but . . . and then . . . Since I really didn't mean to do wrong, somehow it's not really my fault.

    I liked Jamaal and Bender. And disagree with you about them.


    • #3
      Re: Article about David Harrison...

      Originally posted by Peck View Post
      (please spare me the Bender was injured speech, I've heard it before & all I can say is that while he had injuries that wasn't what held him back)

      Yep, guy averged 32 games over his career, but injuries weren't the problem.
      Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!


      • #4
        Re: Article about David Harrison...

        Originally posted by Kegboy View Post

        Yep, guy averged 32 games over his career, but injuries weren't the problem.
        Nope, not all of them.

        Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13


        • #5
          Re: Article about David Harrison...

          Originally posted by Peck View Post
          (please spare me the Bender was injured speech, I've heard it before & all I can say is that while he had injuries that wasn't what held him back)
          Alright, so what was it. i've heard this on a few occasions and no one has ever cared to elaborate on that theory, so what was this mysterious behind-the-scenes character flaw of Bender that seems to have trumped his considerable physical ailments? People can't post stuff like this and then not explain it. I'm all ears.
          There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.


          • #6
            Re: Article about David Harrison...

            As for DH, he still sounds like he doesn't have his head on straight, as was always the case. He may have experienced a lot, but doesn't seem the wiser, still feels people view him incorrectly without actually making an effort to change that perception, which was mostly rightly-earned to begin with.

            He was never as talented as Bender or Tinsley, but he could've had a decent NBA career had he taken it seriously. Sounds like Carlisle is the only reason he's getting this 2nd chance.
            Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 07-17-2012, 12:03 PM.
            There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.


            • #7
              Re: Article about David Harrison...

              It's interesting that he's still needing to be counseled by teammates about his reactions on the court. That certainly doesn't show me that he's changed all that much. I'd like to think he's learned his lessons, but like you said, Peck, actions will speak louder than words. If I had to put a number on his chances, on a scale of 1 to 10....I'd say 2.

              Oh, and put me down as one whose interest is piqued about the behind the scenes goings on with Mr. Bender. A little sumpin' sumpin'???


              • #8
                Re: Article about David Harrison...

                Here is the open honest truth about Bender and understand this is my opinion & I will freely admit I could be wrong.

                Bender loves basketball. Bender hates organized basketball.

                I am always struck by the time in the summer league when the Utah announcers were saying they have never seen a player more disinterested in being there than the time Bender was there and then that very night left the team because his "knee's were hurting" so the Pacers excused him from the rest of summer league play. Only for the very next night for him to be in Houston for a celebrity full court basketball game where we have seen highlights of his full length of the court running one handed reverse dunk (probably could have won the dunk contest with that one).

                That's just one story.

                Now I am not now nor have I ever said he didn't have injuries. I'm saying his willingness to play through them was in question and more to the point the willingness to play organized (read practice) was really in question. Did he have worse knee's than Al Harrington who physically blew out his knee yet has gone on to a very long NBA career? Hasn't Blair in San Antonio already played almost as much as Bender did with yet an even worse problem?

                We were told it was bone on bone yet somehow a few years later he somehow magically improved enough to give it a go with the Knicks yet couldn't play much for them because of his wrist (not knee).

                He did have his contract medically retired so there is that, but as any good attorney will tell you it is almost impossible to disprove pain and pain level.

                Now again those are just my opinions on the matter, you may differ and that is fine. I'm not going to change your mind and believe me in this case your not going to change mine.

                Other topics involving him I cannot and will not discuss due to confidence.

                Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13


                • #9
                  Re: Article about David Harrison...

                  This is about toughness.

                  David Harrison had all the physical tools, and none of the mental tools. He was more interested in pursuing his recreational drug of choice than in having the discipline required to capitalize on his talents. This isn't meant to be political commentary. He wasn't mentally tough enough to pursue both the high he was chasing and a successful NBA career. Doesn't matter whether his drug of choice was legal or illegal, he's the poster child for what happens when pursuing the substance interferes with the rest of his life. Many of you will quickly point out that is not his drug's fault. And you're probably right, according to current pop-culture science on this topic. He just was not mentally strong enough to pursue both. Are there some people that can be high-performers while pursuing their recreational drug of choice? Anecdotally, that answer is yes. He wasn't one of them.

                  And mental weakness is the common theme among the players Peck mentioned. They had other circumstances as well, but they weren't mentally tough enough to overcome them.

                  What the Pacers have shown me in the past decade is how little raw talent actually matters. Mental toughness is the key. That is what kept Bender, Harrison and Tinsley from reaching their potential. Jermaine was probably above-average in mental toughness, but relative to his talent/ skills that was also quite a let down and why he never lived up to the contract that was based on his talent more than his toughness. Having more mental toughness than skills has kept Stephen Jackson in the league far longer than his low shooting percentage and high turnover rate might otherwise suggest.

                  Our "favorite" Pacers teams weren't the most talented teams of all time, but Jackson, Reggie, Travis, Mullin, Jalen, Derrick, Dale, Tony, Croshere and Smits were a mentally tough bunch of guys and that's why they were in the ECF's five times in seven years. Not enough talent to win the championship, but mentally tough enough to always be in contention.

                  This year's Pacers teams, with improved leadership from Hill and West, starting showing some of the mental toughness that completely lacked the previous year against Chicago, where the Pacers were the more-talented team right until it was time to be mentally tough. They've still got strides to make, as Miami is now a dangerous combination of a talented AND mentally tough team.

                  These are some of the most disappointing players in NBA history. From 1999 through 2004, we really butchered the draft. In order, that's 1999 - Bender, Foster, 2000 - Brezec, 2001 - Tinsley, 2002 - Jones, 2003 - (no pick from the Tinsley trade) and 2004 - Harrison. Yuck. The three players with the best career success over that period were probably Foster, Brezec and Fred Jones -- three career backups. That's terrible.
                  Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                  Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                  Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                  Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                  And life itself, rushing over me
                  Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                  Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


                  • #10
                    Re: Article about David Harrison...

                    I agree with you about Harrison but not about Tinsley and Bender. Tinsley made mistakes off of the floor but he was a fine PG, better than anything we have had since he left. Bender's problem we injuries. That kept him out of lineup and practice and did not allow him to develop. I'm pretty sure he played less than 40 games per year......


                    • #11
                      Re: Article about David Harrison...

                      I'm happy that Harrison is given a second chance
                      Originally posted by IrishPacer
                      Empty vessels make the most noise.


                      • #12
                        Re: Article about David Harrison...

                        Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
                        What the Pacers have shown me in the past decade is how little raw talent actually matters. Mental toughness is the key.
                        I'm thanking you for this part.
                        Originally posted by IrishPacer
                        Empty vessels make the most noise.


                        • #13
                          Re: Article about David Harrison...

                          Originally posted by Peck View Post
                          Other topics involving him I cannot and will not discuss due to confidence.
                          I'm under no obligation so maybe this helps. Bender was a party boy and if not for things being kept quiet on his behalf maybe he and David Harrison could of got together to do buddy stoner movies. Jon had buddies that would have made Shawne Williams proud.
                          You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....


                          • #14
                            Re: Article about David Harrison...

                            I remember Bender leaving the summer league but don't remember the part about the celebrity game the following night. I don't doubt it though. I'm definitely willing to give Peck the benefit of the doubt.

                            Bender was a greater disappointment because I never thought that Tinsley or David Harrison were going to be that good in the first place. Bender had the talent to be what Kevin Durant is now but couldn't put it all together. Maybe he had problems picking up the plays on offense but he was a decent defender. I still think that injuries more than lack of work ethic derailed his career. I was there at the game against Sacramento when he scored 16 points in the first half before tearing his calf muscle. He was finally starting to get his game together it seems and he was never the same after that injury.

                            Don't get me wrong, I was never really a Bender fan but I wanted him to succeed because the Pacers really needed a player like him to step up and solidify the SF position. Once we got Artest, I really couldn't care less whether he would pan out and was upset that the Pacers signed him to that 6 million dollar a year contract extension that basically made it impossible (in TPTB opinion) to re-sign Brad Miller. I'm still bitter about that to this day.

                            Back on topic... David Harrison is a scrub basketball player and I doubt he lands another spot on an NBA team because of his lack of talent and poor rebounding more than his past.


                            • #15
                              Re: Article about David Harrison...

                              Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post

                              And mental weakness is the common theme among the players Peck mentioned. They had other circumstances as well, but they weren't mentally tough enough to overcome them.
                              Precisely why I'm glad we ended up with Hill rather than Mayo.