Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Odd Thoughts: 2011-12 player review and other fun stuff part 1

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 2
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 template Next
  • #1

    Odd Thoughts: 2011-12 player review and other fun stuff part 1

    I’m probably going to end up breaking this up into several different posts because I just don’t have the energy to type out everything and as one post it would be pretty long even for me.

    I thought about breaking it down by players we will keep, should keep, need to keep, players we need to trade, cut and even players we need to go get.

    But I think instead I’ll just do it player by player and see how that goes.

    Before we go into this though I guess it’s my turn to do the annual complimentary statements regarding the team’s success and standing in the season. Yes, there is no doubt that certainly in the regular season they exceeded almost universally all of our expectations. To end the season 3rd in the East and better yet 5th overall was just way more than we ever hoped for going into the season. Getting to the second round of the playoffs also was a step forward and even taking the Miami Heat to 6 games was a step forward considering how the season started against them.

    However as good as the season was and as fun as it was to watch we now are officially at 0-0 for our next game.

    So in other words other than experience, both good and bad, this season is now over and it no longer means a thing.

    Sadly because of Birds idiotic year to year hand shake agreement we now once again will be left for the next couple of weeks wondering if he will or won’t return. In the past frankly I didn’t care all that much because I have always assumed Morway was the brains of the outfit anyway. But now there is even a good chance he might leave the franchise to take over Portland.

    So the truth is if they both depart we have absolutely no idea what the next G.M. will do with our club. I mean if Bird stays Granger is pretty secure here because I think there is a mutual loyalty between them from when Danny didn’t leave and didn’t demand an even bigger contract than he was given. But if he’s gone a new G.M. will not necessarily feel the same loyalty and Danny for the first time in his career may end up on the trading block. There is just now way to know for sure.

    But all we can do for now is look at the team we have with the current leadership/management structure we have.

    With that in mind let’s just start with the starters.

    Danny Granger:

    This was the third lowest scoring average of his career. One of the reasons for that is because he shot a career low 42% from the floor (his career avg. is 44). In fact although I don’t have the actual numbers in front of me Danny’s field goal % for the season was saved and brought up that high by a late season surge in both scoring and field goal %. He has been amazingly consistent as a rebounder over his career and although technically his 5.0 rpg were his third lowest of his career it really is in line with what he had been averaging. Now while his shooting % certainly affected his overall scoring the other thing that had a big impact was that he just didn’t get up that many shots because he was trying to fit his game into the teams overall game plan. As an example in the 09-10 season he only played in 62 games as well (same as this year) but he shot the ball 1,139 times compared to only 941 this season.

    The odd thing is that Danny Granger is generally the most controversial Pacer player that we have. The reason this is odd is because this is a guy who has never ever been in trouble with the law, the league or our team. From all reports he is an upstanding citizen and while that may not mean much today believe me over the past 5 years it wasn’t just an important thing it probably was the important thing. But the fact of the matter is he is a peripheral level all-star talent player (meaning he has made the team once but may or may not ever make it again) and at the end of the day he is a boring jump shooter who brags about his old man game. Let’s face it that really isn’t going to sale tickets to certain fans who want to see the high flyers and exciting plays.

    But beyond that the one thing that Danny Granger is guilty of is that he is the best player on our team, yes even today after the additions of West & Hill and the improvements of George & Hibbert, Danny Granger is still the best player on our team.

    A lot of people don’t think that he is good enough to be the best player on a good team and that is a fair criticism. But where I tend to part ways with them is that they tend to blame this on Danny and do not realize that he can’t be held responsible for the fact that the team has not brought in a better player. He can only be the player he is and no he is not ever going to be a Dwayne Wade or Derrick Rose type of high flyer. That just isn’t his game. I think it is more than safe to say that Danny is a good soldier for our club (another reason there is loyalty there) and I feel that he would have no opposition at all to us bringing in another player that was better. I think a lot of people tend to forget that this is a guy who was a rookie right after the brawl, in other words the year he got here the team collapsed because of what happened the year before and Reggie was already gone. This is a guy who had no mentor and no other true veteran presence to help guide him along or even help him with the team. So really it is actually somewhat surprising that he turned out as good as he did.

    One of the other criticisms of Danny is that he does not always appear to be engaged on the defensive end. I think that this is a fair assessment as well. I think some over state it but there are times where it does appear he takes a play or two off, which frankly is not good. But there are times when he locks in he can be an almost elite level of defender who denies position with the best of them. Obviously the playoffs were rough but I contend there is nobody on the planet that could really guard him one on one.

    Passing is just average and while 5 rebounds a game isn’t bad for a small forward this is the one area that he drives me crazy because this is where we often times catch Danny leaking back trying to sneak out on a fast break all the while our other four players are having to slog it out to try and control the glass. What sucks is when he wants to he can be an almost outstanding rebounder for his size.

    Overall I think the fact that he was trying very hard to metamorphosis his game to accommodate the rest of the team and the new coaching staffs philosophies speaks well of him and I am not concerned about his game declining, I just believe he was trying to fit the system.

    Now having said all of that I want to say this. I think the playoffs from Danny were a disappointment. Honestly I may have been setting myself up with to high of expectations for him but I really thought that we would see him step it up to another level and frankly while he had a couple of decent games against the Magic not once did I ever feel like we had a special game from him. I really thought we might, but it just never happened. Now how much his knee hurt him we’ll probably never know? It may have been a little or a lot or none at all but since he sat that final week of games to rest for the playoffs he never came back the same.

    Predictions: He will be a Pacer as long as Bird is here. He will be back next season and I think we will probably see a slight overall production in his scoring.

    What I would like to see: Shoot 10% fewer threes and drive the dang ball. His free throw attempts were down this year but that may be because nearly 1/3 of his shots were three’s.

    Will he be an all-star: No.

    David West:

    Just like Granger this was the third lowest scoring average of his career as well. Also like Granger he was trying to fit his game into a new coaching staff and in the overall structure of the team. Unlike Granger he was actually trying to do this with a new team.

    This was also his third lowest rebounding total of his career as well and he grabbed a full less rebound a game than he did the previous year.

    He was the most significant addition to our team last year and frankly the argument could be made that he was the most significant addition via free agency to any team this year. There really can be little doubt though that he was the most significant free agent signing in Pacers history. I can’t think of another player that we have signed via free agency that came in and had the impact on the club like he did.

    He immediately established himself as one of the locker room leaders if by doing nothing other than showing the team how to act and prepare for each game. Several players have made the statement that West did not tolerate any type of distractions in practice and in the locker room. Not saying he was a hard nosed person and made the team miserable, quite the contrary by all reports. But he had the one thing that you can’t buy and you can only earn and that is the respect of the locker room. So even if he didn’t make an on floor contribution (which he certainly did) he was very valuable to the club as a leader.

    On one end of the floor West maintains an almost all-star like ability. On the offensive end in the low post he has a very high ability to get his shot off and not only get off the shot but make the shot. He is far stronger than I ever dreamed he was and he physically can punish a defender who tries to body up to him. He still has a nice mid range game and can make a decent if not fancy pass to a cutter or open man.

    Then we come to the other end of the floor and this is where we start to see a problem. David is not a bad man to man defender and as long as he has a low post player he usually will not be burned. Obviously the crappy stretch fours of this world give him some problems because this take him away from the glass and he will never be confused with a gazelle running the floor. But it is in help defense and protecting the rim that we find David having the most problems. He can not rotate laterally to save his life and thus when Roy is not in the game or when he has rotated out to slow up a pick and roll (which is a mistake every time it’s done but that is for later) this leaves nobody at the rim. This often times is where you find Granger feverishly attempting to run in and protect the rim only to have the pass go to his man for a layup because nobody rotated to help him.

    As long as Roy maintains any form of quickness and out of foul trouble it is manageable but the moment he is out and West is in with Tyler it usually is not a pretty site.

    Predictions: He will continue to start on our club and will probably even take a bigger leadership role next season. Will probably produce more points as this is a contract year for him.

    What I would like to see: Rebound the ball more often. I really would like to see him consistently control the glass. I understand he isn’t going to be a shot blocker but he is big enough and strong enough that he should control the backboards more often than not.

    Will he be an all-star? No.

    Roy Hibbert:

    He’s going to get paid. He may not get the league max, we better hope not, but he is going to be the highest paid Pacer next year and for years to come. Whether we like it or don’t like it agree with it or don’t agree with it, it is going to happen.

    I have no doubt in my mind that the Pacers will match almost any offer that is thrown Roy’s way. I suppose they might let him walk for a max contract but short of that I think he will get almost whatever David Faulk asks for.

    Here is the thing; there were times when Roy was probably the 2nd or 3rd best center in the NBA. Then there were times that he acted like the 2nd best center on our team. This has always been the case with Roy; he has stretches of good play and then stretches of bad play. But what made this season different? His poor play stretches lasted only a few games at a time not weeks at a time like it has in the past. Simply put he is still young, he is a legitimate 7’2” tall and he has a high work ethic, high character person who is also becoming a legitimate low post threat.

    What is making Roy more special as a player is something that none of us expected at all. Sure we all thought he could block some shots but none of us and I mean none of us expected him to become the rebounder that he has become. People sometimes ask me to compare him to Rik Smits and there are some similarities but one area where Roy is already starting to take a clear edge on is the rebounding because Rik just never was that good on the boards.

    Also while we expected Roy to be a good shot blocker I think most of us would admit that he has far exceeded our expectation of not only being a shot blocker but just in general guarding the interior.

    Our entire defensive scheme when he is on the floor is to filter people at him, no matter their talent level. Because Roy has the respect of the officials (he earned it by being very respectful when he was a rookie and 2nd year player) so that now when Roy jumps straight in the air with two hand extended up, even if it is in the restricted area, this is not a foul. That is just a huge advantage because that gives you about a 10’ wall that you have to shoot over if you are the opposition. We saw in the second round how the Heat adjusted to that but I said at the time and I’ll say it again, they are probably the only club in the NBA that has two players who can hit that one handed running tear drop shot routinely.

    Now because I’m gushing over Roy at the moment doesn’t mean that he was without faults. He is the worst pick and roll player in the world (ok that might be hyperbole but not by much) and there are times when he fails to establish a strong post position.

    He really needs to work on how to deal with a player with a lower center of gravity.

    But with Roy that is the one thing so far that we can count on, if there is something to work on he will do it. Guy has been dedicated to improving his game since he arrived in town.

    His playoff status was a mixed bag of nuts in a way. I will not say a bad word about his rebounding because generally when he was in and he was around the ball he would grab it which made me very happy. But in both series smaller less talented players would take him out of the game by not allowing him position. Now the fact that we could not make an entry pass didn’t help any but Roy does have to work to get to the spot so they can make an attempted pass at least.

    Predictions: Did I mention he is going to get paid? He will be a Pacer and will anchor the club for at least another 7-8 years.
    What I would like to see: Keep on keeping on basically. Improve again for the next couple of years & I won’t have any real complaints. I’m realistic enough to know that he isn’t going to ever be the best center in the NBA but I have no doubt he will be in the top 5 for several years to come.

    Will he be an all-star? Maybe

    Ok that’s enough for this first one. I’ll try and get the rest out over the weekend and hopefully be done early in the week.

    I’ll say this; it sure is a heck of a lot easier doing this after this season than it was two years ago.

    Here let's think about happy times in the Shire



    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Odd Thoughts: 2011-12 player review and other fun stuff part 1

    Great read as always.

    Originally posted by Peck View Post
    He’s going to get paid. He may not get the league max, we better hope not, but he is going to be the highest paid Pacer next year and for years to come. Whether we like it or don’t like it agree with it or don’t agree with it, it is going to happen.
    Amazingly, there's no way Hibbert gets paid more than Granger next year (or in 2013 either). Hibbert's maximum starting salary next year is $12.9m, which goes up to $13.9m in 2013 with the maximum 7.5% raise. Granger on other hand is making $13m in 2012 and $14m in 2013.

    When Danny signed his extension, the early years were below market, but thanks to the higher raises allowed in the old CBA, his contract is now on par with the market and some people would even argue that he's overpaid now (slightly IMO). When Danny's contract is up after 2013, do we think he can get another $14m contract? Probably not.

    Originally posted by Peck View Post
    I’ll say this; it sure is a heck of a lot easier doing this after this season than it was two years ago.
    Hell yeah

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Odd Thoughts: 2011-12 player review and other fun stuff part 1

      Great job, Peck, though some of your "predictions" are more hesitant than George Hill with a full shot clock.

      Originally posted by Peck View Post
      So really it is actually somewhat surprising that he turned out as good as he did.
      I'll say it forever: Danny Granger has overachieved in the NBA. He's not very talented and certainly not the talent that so many on board perceive him to be. That he's the best player on a near-contender is multi-facetedly remarkable. This does in part inform my pride in him as a Pacer and demonstrates why I don't have the ludicrous expectations that many have for him (pretty much that he should be Pierce), especially at this point in his career. He's a streaky shooter with some physical advantages with average IQ and a tough mindset. Until there is a legit scorer who can substantively (not just for a couple of games) take the pressure off, Danny will be inefficient and have to make tougher shots than he should.

      Originally posted by Peck View Post
      But with Roy that is the one thing so far that we can count on, if there is something to work on he will do it. Guy has been dedicated to improving his game since he arrived in town.
      I think the next part of Roy's game, especially considering being paired with West, could be developing a reliable shooting game. This would take away from his post skill development, but it would really create spacing advantages on the offensive end and establish a pretty flexible inside-outside game with him and West. Considering that they are both above average passing bigs, finding ways to get them to work together effectively seems obvious. Additionally, one of the reasons Roy's jumper has been so inconsistent is that it is used primarily as a bail-out from overly long range at the end of shot clocks. (See his three pointer from the last game.)

      Lastly, if this is to be Lord of the Rings-themed, the "You Shall Not Pass!" clip should follow Tyler's writeup.
      You Got The Tony!!!!!!

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Odd Thoughts: 2011-12 player review and other fun stuff part 1

        Granger, West, Hibbert = Excellent complimentary players on a championship team as a trio if paired with one or two players better than them. In our case, we might be able to do it with one superior talent and a stable, floor-leading point guard. Still, acquiring both those will be a tall order...unless they are one and the same. Paul George probably ends up in the same category as the other three, but it's still early to assess him.

        I see two scenarios where we can really move this team to another level...

        Starters: Top-flight PG acquisition/George/Granger/West/ Hibbert
        Bench: Hill and/or Collison + best we can do

        Starters: Solid veteran PG acquisition/dynamic wing scoring acquisition/George/West/Hibbert
        Bench: Hill and/or Collison + best we can do

        I think both these scenarios are extremely challenging to make reality, but I think that's what it takes to have a legit chance to continue to rise and not plateau.

        I'm not advocating a trade of Granger, but I am on record in the camp that thinks the Paul George's optimal position is small forward.

        Additionally, if there is agreement that we need at least one player beyond the talent level of our current top tier, then I am willing to explore trading any of our current guys if it nets us that talent upgrade. If we can't get the talent upgrade via free agency, at some point, we've got to aggressively investigate if it can be achieved by parting with some of our current pieces, as much as we may feel an attachment to them.
        I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

        -Emiliano Zapata

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Odd Thoughts: 2011-12 player review and other fun stuff part 1

          The ONLY way I would be happy with trading Danny is if it would net us a really talented pointing point guard the likes of Rondo or DWill.

          Pretty spot on analysis of Roy. He has earned his paycheck. He was a freakin enforcer in the paint this year and the rebounds he was getting weren't sissy Troy Murphy rebounds. Just that alone is good enough for me to be happy with him being our long term foundation.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Odd Thoughts: 2011-12 player review and other fun stuff part 1

            Can't disagree with anything that was said. I'd probably add that Roy needs to do a better job of commanding the ball when he's posted up and making himself available on possible entry feeds. Some of it was just poor passing by our guys in the Heat series, but some of it was that Roy needs to do a better job of being assertive down there.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Odd Thoughts: 2011-12 player review and other fun stuff part 1

              I still think we need an starting point guard that can pass the ball, an starting power forward that can play D and rebound and if Paul George doesn't get better we probably need an starting 2 guard too.

              I know nobody wants to hear this but I think is time to trade Danny, but as we did with Dunleavy went we kept him for so long his value declined, Danny's value right now is so low that we won't be getting equal value back unless we trade him for another underachiever player like him, Iguadola, Gay, Joe Johnson come to mind.
              @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Odd Thoughts: 2011-12 player review and other fun stuff part 1

                the argument could be made that he was the most significant addition via free agency to any team this year.
                Tyson Chandler takes that trophy, Diaw is probably up there too, but yeah there is not doubt that West was a huge addition for us.
                @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Odd Thoughts: 2011-12 player review and other fun stuff part 1

                  Originally posted by Peck View Post

                  Danny Granger: Will he be an all-star: No.

                  David West: Will he be an all-star? No.

                  Roy Hibbert: Will he be an all-star? Maybe
                  I think all three of these guys will come back better next year.

                  Danny's shooting was off for longer then usual starting the season, probably because there was a longer layoff because of the lockout. I think next year Danny's shooting will be up.

                  As for West, he will be another year removed form his knee operation. Thus he will start the season in better form, plus we will have a regular training camp.

                  Hibbert will continue to work and get better, and I think he will be an all star center next year. Maybe the all star starter if Dwight gets traded to a team in the West.

                  They could all be a lot better if we get a point guard that gets them easier shots. Easier shots on the offensive end means more energy on the defensive end too.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Odd Thoughts: 2011-12 player review and other fun stuff part 1

                    Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                    Tyson Chandler takes that trophy, Diaw is probably up there too, but yeah there is not doubt that West was a huge addition for us.
                    This isn't close, West wins!

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Odd Thoughts: 2011-12 player review and other fun stuff part 1

                      Nice write-up Peck, I agree with basically every point you've made here.

                      More than anything, I am just happy for the LOTR reference

                      Well heck, since it's now the offseason, I don't feel bad for tossing a link here on the boards so you guys can see where I spent the other 99% of my time
                      (I am a founder and creative director @ Middle-earth Network)
                      http://www.mymiddle-earth.net

                      I keep noticing LOTR references on the boards and I've always wanted to point out the site I work on... Since our run is over, I don't feel that it's a distraction anymore, so there you are

                      Come join us, it's pretty cool stuff!

                      Moving on: I am on pins and needles to hear whether Larry is coming back or not. You hit the nail on the head, Peck. That will be a BIG factor going forward.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Odd Thoughts: 2011-12 player review and other fun stuff part 1

                        If Hibbert gets 13 million a year, i will be disappointed. A +7ft center who can't dominate players who are 6'-9 shouldnt be making that much money. I'd have a hard time believing any team will offer him that much when his weaknesses were on full display for 2 playoff series. Also there are a handful of other centers reaching the market as well. Brook Lopez, Robin Lopez, McGee, Spencer Hawes. Roy is easily the slowest and least athletic of all 4 of them. Not really deserving of a max deal. None of those guys are.
                        You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Odd Thoughts: 2011-12 player review and other fun stuff part 1

                          Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
                          If Hibbert gets 13 million a year, i will be disappointed. A +7ft center who can't dominate players who are 6'-9 shouldnt be making that much money. I'd have a hard time believing any team will offer him that much when his weaknesses were on full display for 2 playoff series. Also there are a handful of other centers reaching the market as well. Brook Lopez, Robin Lopez, McGee, Spencer Hawes. Roy is easily the slowest and least athletic of all 4 of them. Not really deserving of a max deal. None of those guys are.
                          I personally agree that Hibbert should not be paid the max. However, he is by far the best available at his position. He will get paid... a lot unfortunately.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Odd Thoughts: 2011-12 player review and other fun stuff part 1

                            I pretty much agree with your whole post. Although, I would have mentioned that West was coming off of a serious knee injury that could have been part of the reason his numbers were down.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Odd Thoughts: 2011-12 player review and other fun stuff part 1

                              Am I the only one that thinks what we saw with D. West this year is all were gonna get? I really dont think his knee injury affected him all year. And I don't expect him to improve next year.

                              And I'm ok with that.

                              Comment

                              Previous 1 2 template Next
                              Working...
                              X