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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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NBA files suit against NBPA

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  • #46
    Re: NBA files suit against NBPA

    Originally posted by Constellations View Post
    I have no sympathy for the players at all. The players are the enemies keeping us from a season.
    Complete nonsense! It's both sides that are keeping this lockout going. I've never understood why owners in sports always seem to get a free pass when it comes to fan ire over a work stoppage in any sport. Is it the money the players make? Well, let me throw this out there.... Do you not think Schick, T-Mobile, Anheuser Busch and Right Guard pay TNT and ABC/ESPN millions upon millions of dollars to have their products advertised? What about the said networks and their billion dollar rights fees they gladly fork over to the league? It seems like a lot of you feel the players should make a wage comparable to "Joe 6-Pack" because he is just "playing a game" while the owners just get over and essentially print their own money. Last time I checked, NBA style basketball will still be played in Fort Wayne this fall, but no one will care because it isn't the league.... It's the players that make it worth watching.

    As for this lockout, I wholeheartedly feel the players have to give concessions because the model for this league has been broken for a while as far as competitive balance goes, but for the owners to bankroll all these changes on the players alone is just going to lead to missed games. If the NBA is truly losing in the neighborhood of $300M a season, it stands to reason with me that yeah, you have to recoup some of that from player salaries, but the owners also have to seriously look at revenue sharing to be taken seriously from who they are trying to "collectively bargain" with!

    Personally, I don't feel this is any kind of negotiation, just a waiting game for checks to get missed and like the past lockout, the real negotiations won't start until there is some pain felt.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    • #47
      Re: NBA files suit against NBPA

      Originally posted by Hicks View Post
      50/50 revenue sharing, multiply the luxury tax by at least three fold. Just get it over with.

      Yeah, I have been thinking that seems like an easy solution to me, because with the escrow clause in place all you need to do is adjust the revenue split and you are good to go. The owners need to work out a revenue sharing system amongst themselves, and after that we should be good to go.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: NBA files suit against NBPA

        Whoa, the NFL owners did not get a break, they looked pretty bad in the media IMO.


        Comment


        • #49
          Re: NBA files suit against NBPA

          Originally posted by wintermute View Post
          Do you mean me?
          Yes, sorry.

          As I recall, what I stated then is that Deron with an opt-out is worth a lot less than Deron with a multi-year obligation. So you can't compare the numbers directly.[/QUOTE]

          When you're paying for the services for a player, on a one year rental, the players usually get more money for that one year, compared to the first year of a mutli-year deal. I agree you can't compare the directly, and I'm not trying to really do that.

          I'm saying DWil is severly UNDERPAID in Europe. Agreeing to a massive paycut, when you're union isn't wanting paycuts is stupid and it undercuts your leverage.



          Originally posted by wintermute View Post
          And anyway, as just about everybody has pointed out (including yourself), it's about putting pressure on the other side. No one seriously thinks that Deron will choose to play for less in Turkey when (not if) the NBA resumes.
          Agreed. Which is why it's stupid for the NBPA to keep floating out all these articles that X superstar is open to the idea of playing overseas. It doesn't help your cause at all, and if they do sign, it actually hurts it. Less money, plus an outclause if/when the NBA starts back up again, shows that the NBA will still be king, regardless of how the new CBA shakes out.
          Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: NBA files suit against NBPA

            Originally posted by Isaac View Post
            Fixed
            IT'S THEIR MONEY!!!!!

            If you don't like what you're getting paid for doing your job, then find a new freaking job!!!

            The owners take ALL the risk. When they lose money, they don't say "Hey Kobe, I lost 10% this year so I'm reducing your salary by 10%." Hell no. They pay the full salary.

            These players don't have a right to play in the NBA. Go out and find a different ****ing job, if your's is so awful. Welcome to the real world, where not everyone is pampered with a silver spoon.
            Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: NBA files suit against NBPA

              Originally posted by Hicks View Post
              50/50 revenue sharing, multiply the luxury tax by at least three fold. Just get it over with.
              For real, I can't find any holes in this basic logic. If the teams want cost control, triple luxury tax should be an incentive. If the players believe the Cubans and Lakers of the world will still exceed it, they'll make up a chunk of that percentage.

              Sprinkle in some revenue sharing across teams and we have a deal.

              I still think the new tv contract is a key carrot for getting the players to believe 50% of the new contract > 57% of the current.

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              • #52
                Re: NBA files suit against NBPA

                What is the actual league national TV contract? I had always heard it was a fraction of the contract for baseball or football, so not the huge cash cow so many assume it to be. Local TV is where the TV money comes from in the NBA, isn't it?
                BillS

                A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: NBA files suit against NBPA

                  I don't care about who is right or wrong or whatever. I just want a hard cap and,in owners' negotiations, revenue sharing. It will safe guard our franchise for the long haul. This means backing the owners. As a fan, I'm willing to lose a season to get the hard cap.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: NBA files suit against NBPA

                    Originally posted by BillS View Post
                    What is the actual league national TV contract? I had always heard it was a fraction of the contract for baseball or football, so not the huge cash cow so many assume it to be. Local TV is where the TV money comes from in the NBA, isn't it?
                    I found this so far, its a great question. I based my entire premise of it being a carrot for the players on the new TV contract, so I guess this makes sense to find out.

                    I have heard/seen that its being speculated they'll get a nice bump in the amount.

                    An article from June 2007.

                    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baske...96131424_x.htm

                    "The NBA will receive about $930 million a year for all its broadcast rights, an increase of more than 20 percent from the previous average of $767 million,..."

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: NBA files suit against NBPA

                      Found this interesting...

                      http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/feed...during-lockout

                      .."
                      The networks that air NBAgames are still on the hook to pay rights fees even if the season doesn’t start as planned.


                      The NBA’s contract with ESPN/ABC is worth $485 million annually, while the contract with TNT is worth $445 million. That means the league will be paid $930 million -- or $31 million per team -- in national broadcast rights for this season. Owners, of course, are already losing substantial revenues, as sponsorships dry up and local broadcast rights stand unpaid. And deputy commissioner Adam Silver pointed out that the league gets the payment as a loan -- it would have to be paid back (with interest) if there are no games this year. But the national TV revenue stream does give the owners an advantage over players in the meantime..."
                      Last edited by Speed; 08-03-2011, 12:14 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: NBA files suit against NBPA

                        Originally posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
                        Personally, I don't feel this is any kind of negotiation, just a waiting game for checks to get missed and like the past lockout, the real negotiations won't start until there is some pain felt.
                        That's exactly what it's about. It's not about some morals or principles. Each side is just trying to wait the other one out.

                        It's all about the pain threshold. All about when the guys who don't make the megabucks, don't have the mega endorsements and live check to check cry uncle. Or perhaps when the owners are sick and tired of paying for employees and maintaining their arenas while not earning any revenue.

                        That's when negotiations will really start and they'll actually come to a compromise.

                        Right everyone is they're just posturing, talking tough and drawing a line in the sand. Nothing more. We'll see exactly how deep their convictions are when they start feeling the pain of the lost revenue.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: NBA files suit against NBPA

                          Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                          These players don't have a right to play in the NBA. Go out and find a different ****ing job, if your's is so awful. Welcome to the real world, where not everyone is pampered with a silver spoon.
                          No, they don't have a right, but they're smart enough to know that the NBA is always going to return to operations eventually. They're smart enough to know that these rich NBA owners need them just like the players need the owners. After all, the owners just can't start a season and roll out a bunch of replacement players that they dig up from the local Y. Fans wouldn't pay for that.

                          If players somehow got the feeling that the NBA seriously might not ever come back, then yeah, I'm sure you'd see guys actually looking for a different job. But that's not happening because the owners still need them. They need the players because that's who the fans pay to watch.

                          Again, it's not about principles here. Not for the owners and players anyways. It's all about who can take more punishment from missing out on big checks.

                          You and I may and the rest of the fans may not like the way this is playing out (I certainly don't), but this is the cold hard reality we deal with. It's what happens when billions of dollars are on the table between a bunch of rich people. When that happens, you get a bunch of litigation, negotiation and posturing like we see now.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: NBA files suit against NBPA

                            Originally posted by BillS View Post
                            What is the actual league national TV contract? I had always heard it was a fraction of the contract for baseball or football, so not the huge cash cow so many assume it to be. Local TV is where the TV money comes from in the NBA, isn't it?

                            NFL is what is about 4 times the NBA. I believe MLB is in the same ballpark as the NBA.

                            Off the top of my head, I believe each NBA team receives approximately $32M per year from national TV.

                            I believe each NFL team received over $120M per year.

                            oops, I see Speed beat me to it
                            Last edited by Unclebuck; 08-03-2011, 01:35 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: NBA files suit against NBPA

                              Originally posted by Speed View Post
                              "The NBA will receive about $930 million a year for all its broadcast rights, an increase of more than 20 percent from the previous average of $767 million,..."
                              so about $30M - or less than half the salary cap. Even less for the Pacers when you take out the Spirits Extortion/Best Sports Deal EVAH (pick one) money.

                              Helpful, but not particularly thrilling when compared to the assets of the big teams.
                              BillS

                              A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                              Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: NBA files suit against NBPA

                                Originally posted by d_c View Post
                                No, they don't have a right, but they're smart enough to know that the NBA is always going to return to operations eventually. They're smart enough to know that these rich NBA owners need them just like the players need the owners. After all, the owners just can't start a season and roll out a bunch of replacement players that they dig up from the local Y. Fans wouldn't pay for that.

                                If players somehow got the feeling that the NBA seriously might not ever come back, then yeah, I'm sure you'd see guys actually looking for a different job. But that's not happening because the owners still need them. They need the players because that's who the fans pay to watch.

                                Again, it's not about principles here. Not for the owners and players anyways. It's all about who can take more punishment from missing out on big checks.

                                You and I may and the rest of the fans may not like the way this is playing out (I certainly don't), but this is the cold hard reality we deal with. It's what happens when billions of dollars are on the table between a bunch of rich people. When that happens, you get a bunch of litigation, negotiation and posturing like we see now.
                                And none of this addresses the OP that I quoted, calling the owners "greedy."

                                You don't end up owning a NBA franchise by making stupid investments, unless you were born with a massive trust fund already setup and ready to go.

                                These are smart businessmen, who either built their empires or are smart enough not to tank them.

                                You don't do that by throwing 15mil dollars down the drain, like the Simons were doing with PS&E.


                                Did I ever say the NBA didn't need players? No.

                                I said they don't have a right to work in the NBA. That's true. That's all I said, so let's stay within what I did say, and not try to take the conversation in another direction.

                                Will the NBA be stronger or weaker with players maxing out at 16mil per, rather than 20mil? Uh.... stronger. It would shift player salaries down, reducing salary payroll, making it actually profitable to own a franchise and invest into it.

                                A NBA player standing up and *****ing about making 16mil, instead of 20mil, pisses me off.

                                Whether we like it or not, the NBA is a business. The point of a business is to make money. If the league doesn't make money, it will fold. There's no way around it.
                                Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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