"We don't take bad shots anymore."

[McKeyFan]

Thought I'd start some discussion on the very poignant quote by Coach Vogel, which he repeated several times: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

First, he apparently believed JOB allowed players to take bad shots. How can you argue against this?

Does this mean he watched for three years and shook his head silently? Did he discuss this terrible problem with the players?

Did he ever confront JOB on the problem or just remain a good soldier until his day came?

Did he think the Pacers took bad shots but the ECF Celtics did not?

Why is Vogel able to discern bad shot taking but JOB could not?

So, yes, his quote caused all sorts of questions for me.

[MyFavMartin]

Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

If he confronted JOB about it, I'm sure it was behind closed doors as Lester Connor was moved on after his public comments last year about JOB's system and offense. I'm also not sure how open the assistant coaches were allowed to openly conflict/criticize with the head coach... JOB might not have promoted a collegial discussion on much... He didn't seem the type, considering his stubbornness and self-righteousness and unquestioning belief in his system and quick shots.

I think Vogel is more the patient type and wants to see offenses run sets and work the clock to get shots off penetration or working the low post and/or drawing fouls and contact rather than settling for the easy shot, i.e., outside jumpers.

[MyFavMartin]

Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

When asked for comment, Bird and O'Brien had this response:

[Evan_The_Dude]

Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

I think it all points back to when Vogel said they're going to value every possession.

[BlueNGold]

Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

"Valuing ever possession" is a softer way of saying the same thing...or that Jim's system wastes possessions. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

I think Frank's statement came from the heart and was not intended to be a jab at Jim. It was simply fact. I also seriously doubt the franchise from the Simons on down had a problem with it.

I highly suspect that the person within the franchise who is least likely to rip on Jim O'Brien is Frank Vogel. The others within the organization probably fully support Frank and some probably cheer when he makes these types of statements.

[MiaDragon]

Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

I don't see JOB as someone that would listen to someone in a lower position than he, Just my thoughts but I bet these guys were scared to say much for fear of being fired.

[BlueNGold]

Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

I don't see JOB as someone that would listen to someone in snoozed position than he, Just my thoughts but I bet his these guys were scared to say much fir fear of being fired.

I believe there is a whole lot of truth to this. Why did Lester Connor get fired?

Don't criticize Jim...but you have to let him criticize you.

[McKeyFan]

Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

It will be interesting to see what other tidbits emerge over time.

Quite possibly what we are learning is that a reign of terror, based in faulty premises, was allowed to grow and fester by a GM who had a bigger blind spot and was more stubborn than JOB himself.

[BlueNGold]

Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

Bird is certainly stubborn, but he knows good basketball.

I can only imagine that he stuck with Jim because of the Celtic ties...along with the fact Jim married into the Pacer family.

[gummy]

Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

Well McKeyFan, in one of his early media appearances Vogel said that he and JOB definitely had disagreements.

It might be in this one that he said that. I don't have time to re-watch it but I know I found the whole thing very interesting, for those that haven't seen it yet:

http://www.nba.com/pacers/video/2011/02/04/110204VogelPostgameflv-1547199/index.html#

[flox]

Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

In my opinion- Jim allowed them offensive freedom.

I think we are less free under Vogel. Not that it is a bad thing, but I feel like instead of the coach living with the offense- Vogel is forcing them to do certain things. I don't think Jim would pull you for a bad shot.

[pacer4ever]

Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

In my opinion- Jim allowed them offensive freedom.

I think we are less free under Vogel. Not that it is a bad thing, but I feel like instead of the coach living with the offense- Vogel is forcing them to do certain things. I don't think Jim would pull you for a bad shot.

The offense is simple now compared to wat JOB was telling us to do makes things easier on the players and they dont have to think as much like they did under JOB

[Bball]

Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

In my opinion- Jim allowed them offensive freedom.

I think we are less free under Vogel. Not that it is a bad thing, but I feel like instead of the coach living with the offense- Vogel is forcing them to do certain things. I don't think Jim would pull you for a bad shot.

No he wouldn't... because bad shots were part of the offense. I mean that in all seriousness. The offense basically dictated that there would be some (several) bad shots taken and you'd have to live with them to a degree or you'd have the entire team on the bench.

[Young]

Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

I love what Coach Vogel has said. His enthusiasm has been a pleasant suprise. He appears to have some common sense which is a nice change. I sure hope they don't take bad shots anymore.

[PR07]

Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

I think there are two elements to it:

1) Players aren't stressed to shoot the three point shot anytime, anywhere, if there's a remote crack of daylight.

2) Players are playing more in their comfort zones. Ex: McRoberts isn't shooting threes anymore, Hansbrough can mix it up, etc. Bad shots were resulting from players playing in roles they aren't necessarily good/comfortable at.