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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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"We don't take bad shots anymore."

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  • Bob Zeus
    replied
    Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

    I am encouraged - first time since before JOB was hired. Playing physical, attacking the rim, seriously stressing D, now that's Eastern Conference basketball. I like everything Mr. V says. Let's see what happens when we play stronger opponents. Here's hoping.

    Leave a comment:


  • ilive4sports
    replied
    Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

    Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
    I think you would agree that the players certainly didn't feel free. Is that even in question? Anyway, being forced into a motion offense and the bias toward a 3 point shot isn't freedom.

    The real question is, did the players buy into the system? I think we have comments from several players indicating they much prefer Frank's system. A couple of these are in my signature from Granger and Collison. Pardon the pun, but they were being quite frank with their comments...
    I think Jim allowed more offensive leniency. He allowed the freedom for bad shots. But they had to be with in his system.

    Frank allows the freedom for players to be themselves. I think he calls more plays for the offense and has more control over the game then Jim. And I think that is a good thing with a young team.

    Leave a comment:


  • MiaDragon
    replied
    Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

    Originally posted by PacersPride View Post
    im guessing 3 pt attempts goes down considerably under Vogel.
    Ill take FTA over 3PA any day.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlueNGold
    replied
    Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

    Originally posted by flox View Post
    In my opinion- Jim allowed them offensive freedom.

    I think we are less free under Vogel. Not that it is a bad thing, but I feel like instead of the coach living with the offense- Vogel is forcing them to do certain things. I don't think Jim would pull you for a bad shot.
    I think you would agree that the players certainly didn't feel free. Is that even in question? Anyway, being forced into a motion offense and the bias toward a 3 point shot isn't freedom.

    The real question is, did the players buy into the system? I think we have comments from several players indicating they much prefer Frank's system. A couple of these are in my signature from Granger and Collison. Pardon the pun, but they were being quite frank with their comments...

    Leave a comment:


  • TooBigNdaPaint
    replied
    Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

    Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
    Thought I'd start some discussion on the very poignant quote by Coach Vogel, which he repeated several times: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

    First, he apparently believed JOB allowed players to take bad shots. How can you argue against this?

    Does this mean he watched for three years and shook his head silently? Did he discuss this terrible problem with the players?

    Did he ever confront JOB on the problem or just remain a good soldier until his day came?

    Did he think the Pacers took bad shots but the ECF Celtics did not?

    Why is Vogel able to discern bad shot taking but JOB could not?

    So, yes, his quote caused all sorts of questions for me.
    The 'cat is out of the bag' now. Frank Vogel wants to play like Hubie Brown did when he coached at Memphis a few years back (and Frank Vogel was reviewing the offensive plays being run by Hubie's Grizzlies). What was Hubie's philosophy??? Keep it simple for the players and play to their strengths. Win the rebounding battle every night. Attack the paint and you'll also win the free throw battle. Stay aggressive and relentless on both offense and defense for 48 minutes. Hubie also used a 10 man rotation (like Frank Vogel has decided upon).

    So what adjustments has Frank effected to bring about this new Pacer attitude? Like Hubie, he's made simple adjustments. For example, he's now decided to keep Roy Hibbert/Josh McRoberts closer to the paint area to get more high-percentage shots and defensive/offensive rebounds. Now, it's don't you dare shoot a 3 pointer in the half court offensive set without FIRST attempting to throw it inside for a closer shot or running a pick-n-roll for either a short mid-range shot or hard drive to the basket. We're definitely seeing Granger, Paul, Hans, and Collison attacking the rim (for a And 1 shot). Funny thing, Frank Vogel pulled Paul George in the 4th Qtr (despite a big lead) when Paul George threw up a 3 pointer with 17 seconds remaining on the shot clock (i.e. not being patient enough) and for not trying to kick it inside to (hot) Hans in the low post for a higher percentage shot.

    I'd say that's a drastic change in philosophy when compared to JOB!!!! It's sounds like common sense and with elite NBA athletes, you SHOULD win against an opponent most nights using this simple philosophy!!! Like Frank says, we have elite size at Center and good athletes at the PF position, good shooting athletic Wings, and good athletic PGs. Adding Lance Stephenson and additional athletes (if trades occur at the Feb deadline) will definitely make us a dangerous team to the Bulls, Hawks, Magic, Heat, and Celtics.

    KISS principle is being used by Frank Vogel (KISS acronym means "Keep It Simple Stupid")
    Last edited by TooBigNdaPaint; 02-05-2011, 09:37 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • travmil
    replied
    Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

    Originally posted by PacersPride View Post
    im guessing 3 pt attempts goes down considerably under Vogel.
    Even thought it's a small sample size, so far you would appear to be right. In the 44 games (well, 43 and a half hehe) coached by O'Brien, the P's averaged 23.25 3PA per game. In the three games since, it's 17.66 3PA, including 14 attempts against Portland representing their season low in that area. Almost six attempts less is a pretty significant difference. Yet all three games turned out to be wins. Things that make you go hmm.....

    Another thing that makes you go hmm....

    While researching at Pro Basketball Reference for the stats I used above, I discovered the Jim O'Briens page there is sponsored by 8 points, 9 seconds.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...brieji99c.html

    Leave a comment:


  • BlueNGold
    replied
    Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

    Originally posted by Bball View Post
    New PD Headline "Pacers fire O'Brien- UncleBuck regains sanity"
    I'm ready to welcome him into the fold. Now we just need to work on Flox...

    Leave a comment:


  • Unclebuck
    replied
    Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

    Originally posted by PacersPride View Post
    im guessing 3 pt attempts goes down considerably under Vogel.
    Pacers I think were 3rd in number of thres attempted this season under JOB. I would expect the pacers to be somewhere between 10 -12 th most atempts under Vogel

    Leave a comment:


  • Bball
    replied
    Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

    New PD Headline "Pacers fire O'Brien- UncleBuck regains sanity"

    Leave a comment:


  • PacersPride
    replied
    Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

    im guessing 3 pt attempts goes down considerably under Vogel.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unclebuck
    replied
    Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

    what is a bad shot to Frank evidently is not a bad shot to JOB.

    I side with Frank on this

    Leave a comment:


  • PR07
    replied
    Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

    I think there are two elements to it:

    1) Players aren't stressed to shoot the three point shot anytime, anywhere, if there's a remote crack of daylight.

    2) Players are playing more in their comfort zones. Ex: McRoberts isn't shooting threes anymore, Hansbrough can mix it up, etc. Bad shots were resulting from players playing in roles they aren't necessarily good/comfortable at.

    Leave a comment:


  • Young
    replied
    Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

    I love what Coach Vogel has said. His enthusiasm has been a pleasant suprise. He appears to have some common sense which is a nice change. I sure hope they don't take bad shots anymore.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bball
    replied
    Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

    Originally posted by flox View Post
    In my opinion- Jim allowed them offensive freedom.

    I think we are less free under Vogel. Not that it is a bad thing, but I feel like instead of the coach living with the offense- Vogel is forcing them to do certain things. I don't think Jim would pull you for a bad shot.
    No he wouldn't... because bad shots were part of the offense. I mean that in all seriousness. The offense basically dictated that there would be some (several) bad shots taken and you'd have to live with them to a degree or you'd have the entire team on the bench.

    Leave a comment:


  • pacer4ever
    replied
    Re: "We don't take bad shots anymore."

    Originally posted by flox View Post
    In my opinion- Jim allowed them offensive freedom.

    I think we are less free under Vogel. Not that it is a bad thing, but I feel like instead of the coach living with the offense- Vogel is forcing them to do certain things. I don't think Jim would pull you for a bad shot.
    The offense is simple now compared to wat JOB was telling us to do makes things easier on the players and they dont have to think as much like they did under JOB

    Leave a comment:

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