1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets

[CableKC]

Re: 1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets

I say, once he hit 3 or 4 open 17 footers, step out and guard him, whoever it is. Then hope for help as he drives.

I just disagree, I think its a strategy fail in this case, not a personnel one or not mostly a personnel one. Maybe Griffin still gets 47, but not because he didn't earn it, instead of being given warm up jumpers.

Really, its not even Griffin or Melo or whoever, its sticking with something you thought would work and it didn't, then not changing it.

I respect your opinion, I think we just disagree on this one.

For the Griffin game....I think that it could have gone either way. I'll concede that JO'B should have tried to do more to focus defensive efforts on Griffin ( maybe double-triple team him would have helped )......but I really don't think that there was too much that could have been done.....Coaching and talent-wise...we just aren't that good.

As for the Monta game....I was at the game......that night....nothing short of taking out his kneecaps could have been done to stop him from scoring.

But I know, in the end...we'll agree to disagree.

[McKeyFan]

Re: 1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets

Dick Harter is Jim's father-in-law, and he was an assistant to the team. It sounds like Dick Harder...

You made a joke about the female genetalia, which he responded with another Pacer reference about male genetalia.....

Because, well, a newspaper is black and white. Not red all over. But is read. R-E-A-D.

You know, a chicken has to walk to get to the other side of the road. So, it crossed the road, and that's why.

(Thanks anyway, Since. Although, the father in law is actually Jack Ramsey).

[Speed]

Re: 1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets

When it comes to Griffin, I'm not giving JO'B a full pass on that....cuz he had the option to play McBob...but didn't for whatever reason ( hence the "he didn't throw everything but the kitchen sink" comment that I had ). I hate that Griffin dropped a career and season high ( for the NBA ) on the Pacers....I'm just saying that Griffin has been on a super hot scoring streak in recent weeks. At most...even with McBob...we probably would have simply limited his overall effectiveness to 30+ points instead of 47 points ( pure speculation on my part though ).

I say, once he hit 3 or 4 open 17 footers, step out and guard him, whoever it is. Then hope for help as he drives.

I just disagree, I think its a strategy fail in this case, not a personnel one or not mostly a personnel one. Maybe Griffin still gets 47, but not because he didn't earn it, instead of being given warm up jumpers.

Really, its not even Griffin or Melo or whoever, its sticking with something you thought would work and it didn't, then not changing it.

I respect your opinion, I think we just disagree on this one.

[Speed]

Re: 1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets

Managing players differently is a skill. I'd guess Phil Jacksons success is mostly because of this. Well and the fact he only coaches the most talented teams each year.

I agree, it's not whether its true or not, its whether how Obie managing it, is working. Even to the most biased person, you have to admit, it's at least not helping things.

[CableKC]

Re: 1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets

I see your point, but 47 from Blake Griffin is more than any other team has allowed him at this point and it was mainly on the strategy of letting him shoot wide open shots. Maybe those other coaches start to take that option away after he dropped 27 on them in the first half. I agree those guys can't be stopped, I'm just asking for adjustments to keep them from having one of their best games of the year.

When it comes to Griffin, I'm not giving JO'B a full pass on that....cuz he had the option to play McBob...but didn't for whatever reason ( hence the "he didn't throw everything but the kitchen sink" comment that I had ). I hate that Griffin dropped a career and season high ( for the NBA ) on the Pacers....I'm just saying that Griffin has been on a super hot scoring streak in recent weeks. At most...even with McBob...we probably would have simply limited his overall effectiveness to 30+ points instead of 47 points ( pure speculation on my part though ).

[Speed]

Re: 1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets

Realistically, you're talking about JO'B failing to adjust to limit the scoring effectiveness of 3 fairly unstoppable scorers in the NBA. I'm guessing that there are 29 other Coaches that couldn't stop or limit their scoring IF they were in JO'Bs shoes with the Pacers roster.

I'll admit that JO'B is very slow to adjust and often puts himself in a position to not "throw every weapon as his disposal" to limit the other Team ( such as having McBob glued to the bench against the Clippers ), but there wasn't really anything that Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan or Gregg Popavish could have done IF they were coaching this Team while using the same roster to limit the scoring onslaught that we've witnessed with Griffin/Monta/Melo. We just aren't that good of a Team.

EDIT - take Melo out of my post....I didn't know that he was a streaky 3pt shooter and the Coaching Strategy was to simply let him take it. At least for Melo....after the 3rd or 4th 3pt shot made...I'd think that someone ( whether it be the Coach and/or the Players ) would not leave him wide open. But my comment still stands for Griffin and Monta....there was very little that the Team could do against those 2.

I see your point, but 47 from Blake Griffin is more than any other team has allowed him at this point and it was mainly on the strategy of letting him shoot wide open shots. Maybe those other coaches start to take that option away after he dropped 27 on them in the first half. I agree those guys can't be stopped, I'm just asking for adjustments to keep them from having one of their best games of the year, after your initial strategy looks like a complete failure.

[Since86]

Re: 1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets

Whether or not you think Roy should be able to handle it, isn't the discussion.

I think Roy should be a little tougher skinned, just by the fact that Jim of all people is the one saying it. Jim's opinion on basketball related matters shouldn't carry that much weight, but unfortunately he is the coach.....

Obviously it does affect Roy, so now the discussion is what to do about it and how it should be corrected.

Blaming Roy does neither, even if it's warranted. But then again, that's Jim's problem. Just because it's true doesn't mean it won't hurt people's feelings. Obviously Jim, and some, can't get past the "Buuuuut it's true!" part.

[Since86]

Re: 1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets

I suppose I should understand that reference, but I'd be lying if I said I did.

Dick Harter is Jim's father-in-law, and he was an assistant to the team. It sounds like Dick Harder...

You made a joke about the female genetalia, which he responded with another Pacer reference about male genetalia.....

[BRushWithDeath]

Re: 1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets

Do you really think Roy is like some weak minded teenage girl who cannot take criticism?

If you changed teenage girl to 20-something male, then absolutely.

[CableKC]

Re: 1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets

Another thing that bothered me about this trip.

Over coaching or failure to adjust.

Blake Griffin - Obie told the media that Blake was a face up game away from being unstoppable, so Obie had players play off of Blake, he drops 47 on them with only one dunk.


Melo - shooting 25% on 3s for the year, Obie had players give Melo the 3, he hits 6/7 in the 4th quarter.

• "Carmelo is shooting 25 percent (on 3-pointers). That is the shot we are going to give him and he made them." – Pacers coach Jim O'Brien "

Monta Ellis - I'm not sure what the deal was, but the game plan wasn't effective.

I get trying to take away a guys strength, but this isn't highschool or college, you can't invite a player to do these things.

More importantly, once it doesn't work, adjust, mid game.

I don't know if the Pacer players aren't good enough to play teams straight up or if the coach just thinks he has to implement these things to try to impact the game.

It's just the opposite of what the Colts always say, "we do what we do"....Pacers say "we do any kind of gimmick because its the only chance we have"

Reeks of desperation and lack of confidence in your players.

Realistically, you're talking about JO'B failing to adjust to limit the scoring effectiveness of 3 fairly unstoppable scorers in the NBA. I'm guessing that there are 29 other Coaches that couldn't stop or limit their scoring IF they were in JO'Bs shoes with the Pacers roster.

I'll admit that JO'B is very slow to adjust and often puts himself in a position to not "throw every weapon as his disposal" to limit the other Team ( such as having McBob glued to the bench against the Clippers ), but there wasn't really anything that Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan or Gregg Popavish could have done IF they were coaching this Team while using the same roster to limit the scoring onslaught that we've witnessed with Griffin/Monta/Melo. We just aren't that good of a Team.

EDIT - take Melo out of my post....I didn't know that he was a streaky 3pt shooter and the Coaching Strategy was to simply let him take it. At least for Melo....after the 3rd or 4th 3pt shot made...I'd think that someone ( whether it be the Coach and/or the Players ) would not leave him wide open. But my comment still stands for Griffin and Monta....there was very little that the Team could do against those 2.

[Speed]

Re: 1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets

Do you really think Roy is like some weak minded teenage girl who cannot take criticism?

I think there are different ways to address different players to get the most out of them. I don't think calling Roy out in the media is the most effective in this situation.

I think the 'one size fits all' mindset is amatuerish at best.

[PaceBalls]

Re: 1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets

Didn't it coincide with it? I'd have to research it to see when that media quote happened, I'm guessing early December, late November.

I know, I know, toughen up, boot straps and all. That does work for some players.

No way to know, what caused what, its all imperical and opinion.

Seems possible if the timing is right, though.

I'd probably use the calling out a guy in the media tactic for guys who are boneheads and maybe not working as hard as they could, not guys who were playing above there previous level and seem to be doing all the right things preparation wise.

Also, if I was the coach, I'd probably do it privately, to not embarrass as guy, unless again, he's a bonehead and thats the only thing that motivates him.

I don't see Roy as a bonehead or a guy who's not working hard.

Do you really think Roy is like some weak minded teenage girl who cannot take criticism?

[BRushWithDeath]

Re: 1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets

Didn't it coincide with it? I'd have to research it to see when that media quote happened, I'm guessing early December, late November.

I know, I know, toughen up, boot straps and all. That does work for some players.

No way to know, what caused what, its all imperical and opinion.

Seems possible if the timing is right.

I would normally dismiss the notion that a newspaper quote could damage the way a player performs out of principle but if there is one player that I could buy the argument it is Roy Hibbert.

Great guy but the definition of mental midget.

[Speed]

Re: 1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets

So Roy's decline is because Jim called him out to the media and it hurt Roy's feelings... right.

Didn't it coincide with it? I'd have to research it to see when that media quote happened, I'm guessing early December, late November.

I know, I know, toughen up, boot straps and all. That does work for some players.

No way to know, what caused what, its all imperical and opinion.

Seems possible if the timing is right, though.

I'd probably use the calling out a guy in the media tactic for guys who are boneheads and maybe not working as hard as they could, not guys who were playing above there previous level and seem to be doing all the right things preparation wise.

Also, if I was the coach, I'd probably do it privately, to not embarrass as guy, unless again, he's a bonehead and thats the only thing that motivates him.

I don't see Roy as a bonehead or a guy who's not working hard.

[PaceBalls]

Re: 1/23/2011 Game Thread #41: Pacers Vs. Nuggets

So Roy's decline is because Jim called him out to the media and it hurt Roy's feelings... right.