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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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Predict the Pacers '11-'12 opening day roster

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  • #16
    Re: Predict the Pacers '11-'12 opening day roster

    Originally posted by hoops_guy View Post
    I would like to ask you guys what you think of David West. This year he is averaging 18.9 points per game on .525 fg%. That is simply outstanding.

    His rebounding has taken a nosedive but I am not sure if he's in a slump, he starts hitting the boards later in the season, or if this is a product of age, but it is a fair concern.

    This guy is the absolute dream player to put with Darren Collison. Great PnP and PnR player. He is getting up in age, but if we sign him to a 3 year deal then I think that this is no big deal.

    I know that a lot will complain about age, but he is just one of the better players in the league right now for an above .500 team.

    Him, Danny, George, Hibbert, and Collison with all of our other pieces is a very nice team as long as we bring in a new coach that isn't prone to screwing everything up.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Predict the Pacers '11-'12 opening day roster

      Nolan Smith isn't a point guard and probably isn't an NBA player.

      Singler shouldn't really be compared to Mike, as Singler brings a lot more utility to 3 positions than Mike. I think he plays the 3 in the NBA, and is probably a bad pick given the contract setup of the team over the next few years,

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Predict the Pacers '11-'12 opening day roster

        Originally posted by judicata View Post
        Nolan Smith isn't a point guard and probably isn't an NBA player. Singler shouldn't really be compared to Mike, as Singler brings a lot more utility to 3 positions than Mike. I think he plays the 3 in the NBA, and is probably a bad pick given the contract setup of the team over the next few years,
        He is a pg and will problly get drafted late to early 2nd rd

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Predict the Pacers '11-'12 opening day roster

          Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
          He is a pg and will problly get drafted late to early 2nd rd
          He plays the 2 and has for a long time now.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Predict the Pacers '11-'12 opening day roster

            Not a huge fan of David West, but one of our top needs is a big that can play the pick and roll.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Predict the Pacers '11-'12 opening day roster

              Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
              Dunleavy at 5mil is far too much for a 2cd wing off the bench. Backup wings are a dime a dozen. Dunleavy won't be getting any offers over 3 mil, if we're smart we wait that one out and get him for a 3 yr deal that starts around 2.5 mil.
              First off, I think that Dunleavy will be the first wing off the bench and an occassional starter.

              Whether he re-signs with us or signs with another team, you are dreaming if you think he will be signed for only 2.5M. I don't think the Pacers will want to commit to 3 years for him. I believe they will be looking for shorter contracts for backup players, especially at the wing positions.

              -------

              As for David West, I think he would be a great acquisition for the Pacers. He is an excellent mid-range and closer shooter and is a good defender. The only drawback is that he will have to opt out of his contract to be available to us.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Predict the Pacers '11-'12 opening day roster

                Originally posted by imawhat View Post
                Not a huge fan of David West, but one of our top needs is a big that can play the pick and roll.
                I am a big fan of David West, but I don't think we should go after him. He's already 30 and he's going to want a big contract that will take him well beyond his prime.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Predict the Pacers '11-'12 opening day roster

                  Originally posted by beast23 View Post
                  First off, I think that Dunleavy will be the first wing off the bench and an occassional starter.

                  Whether he re-signs with us or signs with another team, you are dreaming if you think he will be signed for only 2.5M. I don't think the Pacers will want to commit to 3 years for him. I believe they will be looking for shorter contracts for backup players, especially at the wing positions.

                  -------

                  As for David West, I think he would be a great acquisition for the Pacers. He is an excellent mid-range and closer shooter and is a good defender. The only drawback is that he will have to opt out of his contract to be available to us.
                  I may be a little low if Dun where signed to be the first wing off the bench but I wouldn't think he would get an offer from any other team at more then 3 mil. The 5 mil you suggest is almost full MLE money. Look at players who signed for full MLE's last year. I think there were 3 or 4 and they were all big men who where much better then Mike. Back up wing players do not get full MLE offers. I don't think any of our upcoming free agents are in danger of getting a full MLE offer from another team. I hope we take our time and sign an impact free agent first then see if Mike gets an offer from another team and if we want to go higher or not before he accepts it.
                  Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Predict the Pacers '11-'12 opening day roster

                    This is Kevin Garnett's 16th season (a lot of miles), he's also four years older than West is right now, but while in decline Garnett would still bring a lot to this team if we had him for the rest of this season.

                    42,644 minutes versus West's 15,859.

                    With that said, and while acknowledging every player is different, I don't think it's a big stretch to assume David could give us many quality years. Enough to give him a 4-5 year contract, IMO.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Predict the Pacers '11-'12 opening day roster

                      Originally posted by Hicks View Post
                      This is Kevin Garnett's 16th season (a lot of miles), he's also four years older than West is right now, but while in decline Garnett would still bring a lot to this team if we had him for the rest of this season.

                      42,644 minutes versus West's 15,859.

                      With that said, and while acknowledging every player is different, I don't think it's a big stretch to assume David could give us many quality years. Enough to give him a 4-5 year contract, IMO.
                      Kevin Garnett is a freak, and very much the exception to the rule. David West seems like a horrible contract waiting to happen.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Predict the Pacers '11-'12 opening day roster

                        Granted about KG, but do we have anything to suggest West is likely to break down by age 35?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Predict the Pacers '11-'12 opening day roster

                          Originally posted by cdash View Post
                          Kevin Garnett is a freak, and very much the exception to the rule. David West seems like a horrible contract waiting to happen.
                          I too really like David West's game. I too think that he will be looking for a 5 year deal which pays him until he is 35. Unless his deal has a declining structure it could be a disaster to sign him. Say we start the deal at $11M, which is the minimum he will be looking for coming off a $9M season. Add to it 8% increases and we are paying him

                          2011-12 - $11,000,000 - Age 31
                          2012-13 - $11,880,000 - Age 32
                          2013-14 - $12,760,000 - Age 33
                          2014-15 - $13,640,000 - Age 34
                          2015-16 - $14,520,000 - Age 35

                          Totals = $63,800,000

                          Now, do I think, as a GM, this is someone we should consider? Absolutely. I think his game is good, but he needs to be more aggressive as a rebounder. He does tend to get caught away from the basket way too much. He has the toughness. He is fairly athletic. He will be a good veteran player even when he slows down. I just think that at age 35 and putting up averages of 14 and 7 with suspect defense is not worth $15M. I would love to give him a $55M deal that is an even $11M per year. It will be easier to trade him later if necessary. He took a weird deal last time with the Hornets, where he has a player option on the final year for a lot less. I would love to start him with a deal at $13M and have it decline $1M per year, which maintains the $55M price tag. Then he doesn't hamstring the franchise too bad if he declines rapidly.

                          I think West would be a good player to target for us. That can be our one free agent signing that we make and leave the rest of our cap room for extending our young guys or making a larger deal involving cap space and young talent for positional upgrades. David West went to Xavier just down the road, which helps our cause. He has played with Posey and Collison, which also helps our cause. And we have some cap space to pay him more than some other teams. I think he is the most legitimate free agent for us to be considering, along with Price and McRoberts.
                          "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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                          • #28
                            Re: Predict the Pacers '11-'12 opening day roster

                            pacers have 10 guys under contract for next year.

                            PG - darren collison/AJ price/lance stephenson
                            SG - brandon rush/paul george/dahntay jones
                            SF - danny granger/james posey
                            PF - tyler hansbrough
                            C - roy hibbert

                            JMO, but the pacers will not blow up the core and rebuild. it appears that bird is satisfied with the guys he drafted. but a big hole remains at the 4. so far, neither josh or tyler has shown they are the answer. it looks like they are competing for the backup PF spot. pacers need to get a guy that can play both the 4 and 5. since the nuggets are about to blow up the team, the pacers have a chance to get nene. maybe for cap space, tyler and a pick. the other guys are fill in.

                            PG - darren/AJ/CHRIS QUINN/lance
                            SG - rush/george/dahntay
                            SF - danny/james
                            PF - NENE/mcbobs/Alexis Ajinca
                            C - hibbert/ samuel dalembert/Nazr Mohammed

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Predict the Pacers '11-'12 opening day roster

                              Look, I understand that we'd have to overpay to get him over here. But really what is the point if we are going to be over the cap AND tax in summer 2012 anyway? We are going to have to eventually resign George, Hibbert, Collison, Rush, Josh, and some other guys that may or may not be here.

                              I know that there isn't evidence as Seth would say about the small market, big market theory, but I think it is simply true. We aren't going to get West here without overpaying for him, and if we don't a bigger market team is going to swoop him away.

                              I really like the work that pacergod2 did to figure out a reasonable salary for him. The guy is one of the best players in the league and in my opinion he is a bigger factor in New Orleans' victories than Chris Paul himself.

                              Besides Amare Stoudamire and Blake Griffin, I don't think that there is a more valuable power forward to be had on this team. He is the absolute perfect match for this team.

                              Carlos Boozer- nope too injury prone.
                              Pau Gasol- probably a better option but he wouldn't be a winner if he didn't have Phil Jackson to put up with his whiny and soft ***.
                              Tim Duncan- first of all he's a center. Second of all he's too old to be a long term option.
                              Kevin Garnett- ditto for KG

                              It would be really difficult to pass up on a guy like West. Of course there is a chance that he doesn't opt out, but I would assume that he will because he has a super kind contract and he deserves more.

                              He would give room for Hibbert, he has a great Pnp and PnR game, he plays some defense, he is a big time scorer, and he's just an All-Star. The best fit for Collison out there.

                              And xIndyFan, that is begging for mediocrity. Rush doesn't start for a great team, Chris Quinn is a bum, ditto for Nazr and Dalembert, and Ajinca is actually a decent pickup. I'm on the fence about Nene as a FA but the trade offer isn't that good despite Nene being a good player. To make the offseason better I'd just grab Nene or better yet West if either are available, draft Jordan Hamilton and Fredette, and sign Greg Oden or DeAndre Jordan to somewhere around MLE.
                              Last edited by hoops_guy; 01-04-2011, 04:33 PM.
                              We need better than solid. No JJ Redicks, Andray Blatche, Mike Dunleavy type guys to have big roles on our team.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Predict the Pacers '11-'12 opening day roster

                                Originally posted by BringJackBack View Post
                                http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=58886

                                I tried, but no one really posts in it.

                                Too early. Once conference play gets up and running it will pick up steam. Too hard to evaluate when schools have cup-cake OOC schedules.
                                Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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