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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

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We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Kevin Durant ......

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  • #46
    Re: Kevin Durant ......

    Originally posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
    Of those three, the Magic series was the worst. I've written on this board in detail about the Boston series and how little the conventional wisdom squares with the facts. The Decision wasn't dickish in the least. I've yet to hear a cogent explanation of why it was so bad (and I don't mean "He stabbed Cleveland in the back!!!!")

    These do not add up to dickishness. They add up to a human, who's done things differently than you would.



    If the majority of sports fans (and ESPN) think LeBron was in the wrong, then I know he's done something right. The sports industry rewards self-subjugation and punishes self-empowerment. Sports fans love to own an athlete to perform for them, but they don't want to be reminded that he's there for work. LeBron dared to spurn the industry and tell the fans "I'm not yours, I just work here."



    Again, I've yet to hear a good reason that LeBron is a "dick." Your rationale is spotty and incompatible. I'd like to hear a list of other athletes you put in the Durant category of people you root for. Do they all have to pass the good guy test? If they slip-up are they immediately placed on the "dick-list" never to return?

    The reason I rush to defend LeBron so often is this fantasy that he's committed crimes against Cleveland is so prevailing (and ignorant) that I can't help but argue against it.



    Yet you rush to criticize him as if the world will end if you don't tear the man down. As for having your opinion "without anyone telling us how we feel or why," sure you can have an opinion, but if you're expressing it on a message board aren't you asking for it to be debated? Or would you prefer a board of people who think the exact same way?



    For me the Decision was a punk move not because he did this on national TV it was soo unnecessary for me I don't care that he went to the Heat his career I mean who am I to tell him where he should go? He fulfilled his contract and exercised his right as an FA but there was no need to make a decision special over it.

    Granted Cleveland would've hated the fact he left regardless but there wouldn't be nearly as much of a backlash had he just released a statement saying he was going to the Heat.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Kevin Durant ......

      Originally posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
      Of those three, the Magic series was the worst. I've written on this board in detail about the Boston series and how little the conventional wisdom squares with the facts. The Decision wasn't dickish in the least. I've yet to hear a cogent explanation of why it was so bad (and I don't mean "He stabbed Cleveland in the back!!!!")

      These do not add up to dickishness. They add up to a human, who's done things differently than you would.



      If the majority of sports fans (and ESPN) think LeBron was in the wrong, then I know he's done something right. The sports industry rewards self-subjugation and punishes self-empowerment. Sports fans love to own an athlete to perform for them, but they don't want to be reminded that he's there for work. LeBron dared to spurn the industry and tell the fans "I'm not yours, I just work here."



      Again, I've yet to hear a good reason that LeBron is a "dick." Your rationale is spotty and incompatible. I'd like to hear a list of other athletes you put in the Durant category of people you root for. Do they all have to pass the good guy test? If they slip-up are they immediately placed on the "dick-list" never to return?

      The reason I rush to defend LeBron so often is this fantasy that he's committed crimes against Cleveland is so prevailing (and ignorant) that I can't help but argue against it.



      Yet you rush to criticize him as if the world will end if you don't tear the man down. As for having your opinion "without anyone telling us how we feel or why," sure you can have an opinion, but if you're expressing it on a message board aren't you asking for it to be debated? Or would you prefer a board of people who think the exact same way?
      Let me ask you this:

      1) Do you agree or disagree that there are legitimate alternative points of view on LeBron James and his past behavior besides the one that you, yourself have?

      2) Are you someone who is ever, anywhere in life, not just in sports, rubbed the wrong way by the appearance (to you) of someone else's over-inflated ego?

      3) Do you or have you ever personally felt any significant emotional attachment to players/teams/franchises in any of the major pro sports? Why or why not?

      4) What would a pro athlete have to do to make you not care for them on the court?

      5) What would a pro athlete have to do to make you not care for them off the court?

      6) Approximately (a percentage) how many fans of the NBA are there that you honestly feel care about any given players's sense of self-subjugation or self-empowerment?

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Kevin Durant ......

        Originally posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
        Don't use logic, trolls don't understand it.


        Yes, us trolls is be too stupid to understand anything goods.

        Funny bit is, and correct me if I'm wrong .... isn't a troll someone who just tries to do nothing but annoy other people? If so, doesn't that qualify the quoted post I have here.... wait, isn't that the troll finger pointer extraordinaire? It sure is! You added nothing to the discussion, just a jab at the expense of others. I'm pretty sure that qualifies you for the inability to comprehend logic as well, according to you even. And we're all aware that's as good as Gold, right? Of course I could be wrong, mainly because as long as I've been using message boards I haven't seen the term "troll" since I was on the GameFAQs boards as a teenager talking to pre-teen freaks defending their video game systems like their lives depended on it back in the 90's.

        So the next time you feel like calling someone else a name, and making yourself guilty of the very same thing you're accusing others of at the same time in the process (very good job, by the way) ..... do like Archie Bunker says when he talks to the Dingbat, and do us both a favor, and "stifle yourself" mmmkay?

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Kevin Durant ......

          Originally posted by Hicks View Post
          Let me ask you this:

          1) Do you agree or disagree that there are legitimate alternative points of view on LeBron James and his past behavior besides the one that you, yourself have?
          Obviously I agree. Isn't that why we come to the board, to debate our opinions and test whether they hold up to logic and reason?

          Your POV on LeBron is just as valid as mine.

          2) Are you someone who is ever, anywhere in life, not just in sports, rubbed the wrong way by the appearance (to you) of someone else's over-inflated ego?
          It depends. Inflated egos are almost a necessity for creative people (and basketball players are as close as sports comes to artists). I excuse some of the hubris of a Kanye West or a John Lennon or a Lil Wayne because I understand that it's part of what makes them creative.

          LeBron is cocky, no doubt, but it doesn't exceed the normal cockiness of a professional athlete or artist.

          3) Do you or have you ever personally felt any significant emotional attachment to players/teams/franchises in any of the major pro sports? Why or why not?
          Absolutely. But it's a realistic emotional attachment. I don't expect a player to stay on my team forever. I expect him to play while he has a contract, then make the correct decision for himself. And after a player leaves the Pacers I wish him the best.

          4) What would a pro athlete have to do to make you not care for them on the court?
          Be boring

          5) What would a pro athlete have to do to make you not care for them off the court?
          Be boring, commit a serious crime

          6) Approximately (a percentage) how many fans of the NBA are there that you honestly feel care about any given players's sense of self-subjugation or self-empowerment?
          I was referring to the sports industry, by that I mean teams and leagues.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Kevin Durant ......

            I come here just to talk/discuss sports. I don't view it as 'testing' anybody. I may disagree or agree, but I don't frame it the same way that you do.

            In this case, I'm not trying to attack or challenge, but when I feel I'm being lumped in with the 'LeBron haters', I feel the urge to speak up for myself and also to distinguish myself from the guys who get bent out of shape over minutiae.

            I don't get you when you try to glue creativity and cockiness together, and for that matter I'm not a big believer in the alleged creativity of a ball player in general.

            I agree with you on understanding when a player chooses to move someplace else in free agency; that's his call.

            Regarding the sports industry, that has never been what I was talking about. I'm speaking only of fans.

            Speaking for me, as a fan of the game of basketball, I personally don't appreciate it when I see something I consider to be poor sportsmanship or when I think I see a player intentionally underperform. That is why I have a problem with the Orlando and Boston stuff, and I don't think we have anything to discuss here because it amounts to personal interpretations. We may as well bicker over which color is the best in the crayon box.

            Going back to 'The Decision',

            Yes, LeBron is "one player," but that fails to summarize it as much as it would be to refer to Michael Jordan or Wilt Chamberlain as 'one player' or 'two players.'

            Imagine being a lifelong fan of a pro basketball franchise where, historically, losing was so much a part of its history that even our beloved Pacers appear to have had a better history (especially if you include the ABA Pacers).

            Now imagine after a particularly crappy season, you luck out and win the NBA Lottery. But it doesn't stop there: A guy who many, many people believe will be the next huge name in pro basketball just happens to be coming out that year. But it doesn't even stop there: He's a native of the greater area of your own home team. Think Greg Oden if he were as talented and as healthy as Shaq, and the Pacers had that #1 pick.

            The dream becomes reality: The native super-talent is now wearing the uniform you love to root for. Awesome.

            Now a third of the way into his career, despite having a few wildly successful seasons by the standards of most franchises (60+ wins, a Finals appearance, two other runs only cut short by the eventual East champs, your best player wins two MVPs), this superstar is seriously considering leaving town.

            Yes, he has the right to do it, but let's agree that nonetheless that has to really, really suck if you're a fan of that team, right? I say that to say this:

            Even though that part is chalked up as "tough ****, Cleveland," it lays a foundation of hurt feelings in the fanbase, and while that's too bad it's also a very real emotion a lot of people there were feeling that we have to keep in mind.

            Here's where that foundation starts to have something built on top of it:

            Imagine that instead of finding out LeBron is gone the way everyone else finds out every other player is gone, which is to say in a news report, your superstar decides he needs to orchestrate an unprecedented media circus to announce his intentions. Up until now, you know he might leave, but it's still up in the air, so even at this point you're at least a tiny bit hopeful he's going to announce he's 'staying home'.

            What happens? The circus ends up being an elaborate method (on live TV) of telling you and your fellow fans 'See ya! Sure, the fact that I'm from there was played up as if we had a tighter bond than most players and fans, and sure, we had a lot of good years and moments on the floor, but that's not good enough, and I'm taking my talents to greener pastures!'

            I viewed that as the closest thing you can do in sports (basically) to being uncertain whether you want to stay with your childhood sweetheart of seven years, or breakup with her and move in with a new girl, and ultimately you decide to make your choice live on the local evening news.

            I saw that as a huge gut punch to their fanbase.

            I think a lot of people would stop first and realize doing something like that is going to be really hurtful to the one(s) left behind, and that it's probably not the best idea for that reason. And it was certainly unnecessary.

            Either LeBron honest-to-God didn't consider what that would do to the fans he was leaving, or he did and he didn't care. I think he's a smart guy, and smart people are more likely to realize in advance what this would mean, and so I conclude that he just doesn't care that he did it.

            And I find that rude. Personally, I do think about how my actions will make others feel, even when I don't owe those people ****, and so when I see someone take the opposite attitude, it rubs me the wrong way.

            That's all it is to me. I don't hate a single person in this league. I don't believe I've ever said I hated LeBron, and I don't like being lumped in with those that do claim to hate him. I think hatred is a word that has no place in sports, and is misused often.

            I think that's about as well as I can do to explain my POV on this.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Kevin Durant ......

              Originally posted by Hicks View Post
              I come here just to talk/discuss sports. I don't view it as 'testing' anybody. I may disagree or agree, but I don't frame it the same way that you do.
              I don't mean to test anyone personally, just testing the limits and logic of the argument.

              In this case, I'm not trying to attack or challenge, but when I feel I'm being lumped in with the 'LeBron haters', I feel the urge to speak up for myself and also to distinguish myself from the guys who get bent out of shape over minutiae.
              I don't lump you in as a LeBron hater. Like I said, you're one of the few people critical of LeBron who can argue your point.

              I don't get you when you try to glue creativity and cockiness together, and for that matter I'm not a big believer in the alleged creativity of a ball player in general.
              This is a matter of us coming to the game from different places. We like basketball for different reasons. The aesthetics of sport matter just as much as the outcome. I'd rather lose beautifully than win ugly. I understand that's only me, though. I would never discount the way anyone else enjoys the game.

              Regarding the sports industry, that has never been what I was talking about. I'm speaking only of fans.
              The industry and media often drive the conversation and most fans follow the talking points.

              Speaking for me, as a fan of the game of basketball, I personally don't appreciate it when I see something I consider to be poor sportsmanship or when I think I see a player intentionally underperform. That is why I have a problem with the Orlando and Boston stuff, and I don't think we have anything to discuss here because it amounts to personal interpretations. We may as well bicker over which color is the best in the crayon box.
              Agreed.

              Going back to 'The Decision'...

              ...What happens? The circus ends up being an elaborate method (on live TV) of telling you and your fellow fans 'See ya! Sure, the fact that I'm from there was played up as if we had a tighter bond than most players and fans, and sure, we had a lot of good years and moments on the floor, but that's not good enough, and I'm taking my talents to greener pastures!'
              I would say "Thank you LeBron for all the great things you've brought my team and city. You've transformed a moribund franchise into an internationally recognized organization, SOLELY because of you. I understand your frustration with the team and I would do the same thing probably."

              And I truly mean that. However he wants to go about doing that is his choice.

              I viewed that as the closest thing you can do in sports (basically) to being uncertain whether you want to stay with your childhood sweetheart of seven years, or breakup with her and move in with a new girl, and ultimately you decide to make your choice live on the local evening news.
              I don't like this metaphor. Athletes are not lovers. They aren't friends. They aren't family members. If someone wants to make an athlete an object of romantic affection then they deserve the heartbreak.

              I saw that as a huge gut punch to their fanbase.
              He created that fanbase. These people were not Cavs fans before LeBron.

              I think a lot of people would stop first and realize doing something like that is going to be really hurtful to the one(s) left behind, and that it's probably not the best idea for that reason. And it was certainly unnecessary.

              Either LeBron honest-to-God didn't consider what that would do to the fans he was leaving, or he did and he didn't care. I think he's a smart guy, and smart people are more likely to realize in advance what this would mean, and so I conclude that he just doesn't care that he did it.

              And I find that rude. Personally, I do think about how my actions will make others feel, even when I don't owe those people ****, and so when I see someone take the opposite attitude, it rubs me the wrong way.
              But you're basing this on YOUR life. You can see immediately how your actions effect the people around you. Everything LeBron does is judged by millions of people. At a certain point a celebrity has do what's best for them and the people around them and let the public reaction be what it is.

              That's all it is to me. I don't hate a single person in this league. I don't believe I've ever said I hated LeBron, and I don't like being lumped in with those that do claim to hate him. I think hatred is a word that has no place in sports, and is misused often.
              I don't think you hate anybody. This is all civil debate for me, and it makes the league more interesting. I don't want everyone to think the way I do.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Kevin Durant ......

                I think Durant is overrated quite a bit and Lebron James is definitely the catalyst. The media needed someone to be the anti-Lebron and they chose Durant as that guy. They're building Durant up now (like Lebron a few years ago) but I have no doubt they'll be tearing Durant down in a few years if his game doesn't get any better and his team has no playoff success. Durant played his media attention perfectly too...getting his teammates on the cover of Sports Illustrated with him, saying he's not even a Top 20 player, etc. He has the media and fans alike fawning all over him lol. He's making all the right moves even if they are obviously calculated.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Kevin Durant ......

                  Originally posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
                  I don't like this metaphor. Athletes are not lovers. They aren't friends. They aren't family members. If someone wants to make an athlete an object of romantic affection then they deserve the heartbreak.
                  It's a metaphor, not an exact comparison. What do you compare being a fan of a team to? If for you it is a purely intellectual exercise, or you aren't a fan of a team so much as certain combinations of players, then I can understand why this level of involvement doesn't make sense.

                  It's an emotional bond with a team and, therefore, to the thing that made them strongest. To disregard that emotional bond is a poor way to treat the fans of the team. To do it on national TV, essentially publicly rubbing their noses in it, compounds the failure and makes it difficult for any statement of thanks for their support to be taken seriously.

                  Originally posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
                  He created that fanbase. These people were not Cavs fans before LeBron.
                  Really? Wow, good thing they drafted him, I don't think the Cavs could have survived with no fans.

                  Can we not assume that every Cavs fan is fairweather? Would that mean all of us who are Pacers fans stop having been so if we were to get a superstar?
                  BillS

                  A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                  Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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                  • #54
                    Re: Kevin Durant ......

                    Originally posted by ChrisAndersen View Post
                    I think Durant is overrated quite a bit and Lebron James is definitely the catalyst. The media needed someone to be the anti-Lebron and they chose Durant as that guy. They're building Durant up now (like Lebron a few years ago) but I have no doubt they'll be tearing Durant down in a few years if his game doesn't get any better and his team has no playoff success. Durant played his media attention perfectly too...getting his teammates on the cover of Sports Illustrated with him, saying he's not even a Top 20 player, etc. He has the media and fans alike fawning all over him lol. He's making all the right moves even if they are obviously calculated.
                    I agree that the media will eventually turn on him if he doesn't win in the playoffs. I don't think it will be the same as how LeBron is being treated (unless he does similar things to what draws LeBron negative attention now). I think it will be more like how the media treated Peyton Manning prior to the Colts winning the Super Bowl. 'Yeah, he puts up great stats, but he can't win when it counts/can't win the big one/can't get the monkey off his back.'

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                    • #55
                      Re: Kevin Durant ......

                      Originally posted by Hicks View Post
                      I agree that the media will eventually turn on him if he doesn't win in the playoffs. I don't think it will be the same as how LeBron is being treated (unless he does similar things to what draws LeBron negative attention now). I think it will be more like how the media treated Peyton Manning prior to the Colts winning the Super Bowl. 'Yeah, he puts up great stats, but he can't win when it counts/can't win the big one/can't get the monkey off his back.'

                      You mean he isn't treated that way still?

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                      • #56
                        Re: Kevin Durant ......

                        It's not hypocrisy... Durant is a good guy... so... everyone likes him.. so... no one is burning him for his misfortune... he isn't cocky... if he was all about himself, then it would be a different story....

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                        • #57
                          Re: Kevin Durant ......

                          Originally posted by BillS View Post
                          It's a metaphor, not an exact comparison. What do you compare being a fan of a team to? If for you it is a purely intellectual exercise, or you aren't a fan of a team so much as certain combinations of players, then I can understand why this level of involvement doesn't make sense.

                          It's an emotional bond with a team and, therefore, to the thing that made them strongest. To disregard that emotional bond is a poor way to treat the fans of the team. To do it on national TV, essentially publicly rubbing their noses in it, compounds the failure and makes it difficult for any statement of thanks for their support to be taken seriously.
                          It is an emotional bond, but it's not (or shouldn't be) as strong as a romantic or family attachments. I really like some basketball players and talk about them constantly. To the point where my friends and family have to tell me to shutup about Tyreke Evans or Lamar Odom. But I also understand there's a level of taking it too far and caring too much.

                          And I'll say it again, LeBron James didn't rub anyone's nose in anything. He's a man and he has the right to decide how he wanted to announce his decision. No one was forced to watch anything.

                          Really? Wow, good thing they drafted him, I don't think the Cavs could have survived with no fans.

                          Can we not assume that every Cavs fan is fairweather? Would that mean all of us who are Pacers fans stop having been so if we were to get a superstar?
                          I'd say probably 90% of Cavs fans were fair-weather. They love him for seven years then when he decides he wants to do something they don't approve of they hate him. Which probably means they never really cared about him as a person, just as a machine that plays basketball.

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