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My Jim O'Brien thread...

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  • My Jim O'Brien thread...

    In this post I am going to be discussing my thoughts about the upcoming season regarding Jim O’Brien and what I have seen so far at the games I have attended.

    Also I am going to use this time to try and express why I am going to give him one more chance and hope that this can be a springboard for everyone to take a step back from the edge and take a breath.

    Obviously Jim O’Brien is a polarizing coach, that pretty much can not be disputed by either side of the issue. Some just absolutely hate him and no matter what he say’s or does that is pretty much not going to change. Now we have the phenomenon of a couple of poster who actually like his style no not the pseudo fans of BillS & Uncle Buck who really neither of them like him but can’t stand the hyperbole that gets thrown out after losses to explain why people don’t like him but I mean real honest fans of Jim O’Brien’s.

    I’m not going to lie nor am I going to try and be a hypocrite, I am not a fan. In fact if you’ve read my odd thoughts from the end of last season, seen any of my cartoons from last year or even my Hitler parody you know that I have not been a big fan of his so I’m not going to pretend like I am now.

    Let’s start with this statement.

    The combination of Jim O’Brien & Troy Murphy was more than I could bare. To me they brought out the worst in each other and the combination of the two was an abomination before the basketball Gods.

    However thanks to what one day may be known as the best trade in franchise history not only did Larry Bird get us the point guard that we so desperately needed he also took away the one player the Jim would allow to not play hard defense because his offensive talents were what Jim desired more than anything at the time.

    However knowing all of the bad things I’ve said in the past and knowing that it is very hard for a zebra to change its stripes I will forward the following observation.

    I have seen a totally different offense so far in the pre-season with a dedication to actually getting the ball inside. Now by getting the ball inside I am not just talking about Roy Hibbert in the post, I mean I’ve seen several plays that were designed to get Danny looks right at the rim and several driving attempts by all of our point guards that cause defenders to collapse thus opening up outside shots. This is in contrast to seasons past where we tended to try to hit from the outside to open up the interior.

    I have seen two big players on the floor for the majority of the time and only once that I can think of that he had either Danny or Posey (pick your choice as to which one) in there being the 4 for an extended time frame.

    Since Murphy has been gone he has not punished Josh for not hitting shots and has rewarded him with extended play due to his ability to defend and rebound.
    The defense has improved as I think we are harder to score on right now than what we were & again I give the credit to Jim for actually having the faith to stay with the bigger lineup and resisting his natural urge to go small. Both Hansbrough & McRoberts are better defenders than Troy was and neither of them gets pushed around.

    Jim already has a defined role for our first round draft choice and not just any role either as he is now the 6th or 7th man coming off of the bench and has shown a willingness to stay with him for extended minutes and late in games.

    In other words what I am saying is that so far in the pre-season he has been coaching in a manner to which I don’t find odd or alien. Don’t get me wrong we still don’t have enough discipline on offense and our shot selection is to free flowing and yes I still worry that I will see long extended minutes by Jeff Foster & James Posey but so far so good. Jim has said it and so far anyway he has backed it up.

    So I would like to take the time to ask my fellow O’Brien skeptics to take a breath and not blow a gasket after every loss at the beginning of the season. As long as Jim sticks with the plan to play bigger and develop the younger players and we lose because we are not good enough talent wise I don’t think any of us will have much to say.

    However the caveat to that is this, as long as he sticks with the plan. If by game 5 I can’t tell if Mike Dunleavy or James Posey is the power forward while Jeff Foster mans the middle for extended minutes then all bets are off.

    In the meantime I offer détente over the Jim O’Brien war.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  • #2
    Re: My Jim O'Brien thread...

    Boy ,

    This thread should have nothing but positive interaction between PD memebers

    Seriously though I think if we win a few games at first, all will be well with the world. If we lose the first games, people will scream for his head

    No much room for in between

    Personally, I wanted him gone last year, but as I agreed with Bill to give until December (roughly the first 20 games ) before I pass judgement either way
    Sittin on top of the world!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: My Jim O'Brien thread...

      I'm sorry Peck but I don't think I can do it, is been three years of horrible basketball I don't think he is going to change
      @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: My Jim O'Brien thread...

        Detente accepted.

        Now let the war of Troy Murphy positive or negative begin!


        just kiddinggggg

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: My Jim O'Brien thread...

          Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
          I'm sorry Peck but I don't think I can do it, is been three years of horrible basketball I don't think he is going to change
          Oh believe me I understand but what I ask is that we give it a chance. We can't just have a change and then not recognize that there has been a change.


          Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: My Jim O'Brien thread...

            Originally posted by Peck View Post
            Oh believe me I understand but what I ask is that we give it a chance. We can't just have a change and then not recognize that there has been a change.
            I think that is doable, lets revisit this issue in Decemeber and have an open discussion on the Pacers 1st quarter of the season
            Sittin on top of the world!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: My Jim O'Brien thread...

              We shall see if what we have been seeing during the preseason is as irrelevant going forward as McRoberts was to O'Brien last year...

              Ultimately, I hope that an actual change has occurred, despite having borne witness to the atrocities of the past.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: My Jim O'Brien thread...

                I'm going to be honest.

                I only watched last season of Jim. I haven't seen him coach any other year. And I thought it was the worst coaching performance I have ever seen. (Now, to be fair, I've been spoiled by Calhoun and Auriemma..but even still, I've watched other teams)

                We all like basketball here, and in any team people are going to agree and disagree with the coach on certain things. But I just thought it was poor and irrational. And just bad.

                That said, I'm willing to let him try again and be open minded. I've tried the "don't get mad at him for stupid stuff he hasn't done" method..but it's hard. I think his short comings are primarily in the forms of making adjustments and playing the right players in the right combinations. Which I also feel is probably the most important aspect of NBA coaching.

                But I'm also willing to give him a fair shot this season. After all, what choice do we have. I personally watch basketball for enjoyment..you know..to get away from life's stress..not to stress out over it.
                Last edited by Sookie; 10-18-2010, 06:34 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: My Jim O'Brien thread...

                  Originally posted by Peck View Post
                  The combination of Jim O’Brien & Troy Murphy was more than I could bear. To me they brought out the worst in each other and the combination of the two was an abomination before the basketball Gods.

                  However thanks to what one day may be known as the best trade in franchise history not only did Larry Bird get us the point guard that we so desperately needed he also took away the one player the Jim would allow to not play hard defense because his offensive talents were what Jim desired more than anything at the time.
                  Hmmmmmm.

                  So, you're saying that JOB was somehow handed all the ingredients that would push him to his darkside, a perfect storm for stubborn bad judgement . . .

                  . . . but this was kind of a freakish accident, and very likely won't happen again. It is a statistical longshot.

                  Hmmmmmm.
                  "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: My Jim O'Brien thread...

                    Jim O'Brien is a great coach for the right team. Those Celtics teams he took deep in the playoffs had almost NO talent. Bad coaches with those teams are in the lottery. Great coaches with those teams do what he did.

                    Indiana is just not the right fit for him at the moment IMO

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: My Jim O'Brien thread...

                      Originally posted by Ryan View Post
                      Jim O'Brien is a great coach for the right team. Those Celtics teams he took deep in the playoffs had almost NO talent. Bad coaches with those teams are in the lottery. Great coaches with those teams do what he did.

                      Indiana is just not the right fit for him at the moment IMO
                      42 Vin Baker F 6-11 232 November 23, 1971 9 University of Hartford
                      4 Tony Battie C-F 6-11 230 February 11, 1976 5 Texas Tech University
                      30 Mark Blount C 7-0 230 November 30, 1975 2 University of Pittsburgh
                      9 J.R. Bremer G 6-2 185 September 19, 1980 R St. Bonaventure University
                      5 Kedrick Brown G 6-7 222 March 18, 1981 1 Okaloosa-Walton Community College
                      11 Mark Bryant F-C 6-9 245 April 25, 1965 14 Seton Hall University
                      12 Bimbo Coles G 6-1 180 April 22, 1968 12 Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
                      7 Tony Delk G 6-1 189 January 28, 1974 6 University of Kentucky
                      43 Grant Long F 6-8 225 March 12, 1966 14 Eastern Michigan University
                      0 Walter McCarty F 6-10 230 February 1, 1974 6 University of Kentucky
                      31 Mikki Moore C 6-11 225 November 4, 1975 4 University of Nebraska
                      34 Paul Pierce F 6-6 230 October 13, 1977 4 University of Kansas
                      41 Bruno Sundov C 7-2 220 February 10, 1980 4
                      8 Antoine Walker F 6-8 224 August 12, 1976 6 University of Kentucky
                      55 Eric Williams F 6-8 220 July 17, 1972 7 Providence College
                      11 Shammond Williams G 6-1 201 April 5, 1975 4 University of North Carolina
                      45 Ruben Wolkowyski F 6-10 270 September 30, 1973 1


                      no talent??? he had talent lol he had more than some teams who make the playoffs had

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: My Jim O'Brien thread...

                        I want him fired more because of the constant lame jokes on this board about him than I do his actual coaching ability.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: My Jim O'Brien thread...

                          To be fair to JOB, we're healthier this year than last. He can better evaluate who's ready and who's not. It should be painfully clear to him that Jeff Foster is physically done. There should be ONLY emergency minutes for Jeff due to foul trouble or injuries to McBob, Tyler, Solo, or Hibbert. Also, Dahntay is ridiculously inept in JOB's offense. His passing angles were totally incorrect for a player with his NBA tenure. The entire fan base would rather SEE Lance Stephenson play before Dahntay. It's unfortunate but Dahntay needs to be traded to another team and Jeff Foster needs to retire or be cut. I'd also rather see Magnum Rolle get some minutes in the preseason to determine if he deserves minutes in the regular season. Magnum was all over the court during Summer League and he is 6'11" with extremely long arms and quick jumping ability. His outside shot looked really good as well. I just can't believe that Magnum can't get a few minutes at either PF or SF. JOB may need to give Magnum and Lance 20-25 minutes when the Pacers play back to back games (to rest the legs of our 1st and/or 2nd unit). It's a long season and we'll need both Lance and Magnum IF we expect to make the playoffs (healthy and ready to upset some overconfident 1st round opponent).
                          Last edited by TooBigNdaPaint; 10-18-2010, 08:29 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: My Jim O'Brien thread...

                            Originally posted by Peck View Post

                            The combination of Jim O’Brien & Troy Murphy was more than I could bear. To me they brought out the worst in each other and the combination of the two was an abomination before the basketball Gods.
                            Just for the record, this was a nice chunk of why JOb was criticized. It was like giving a cheap, lead infested toy from China to a teething child. I think now that the troy is gone, JOb might actually get healthy and appear to be learning once again.


                            Originally posted by Peck View Post
                            I have seen a totally different offense so far in the pre-season with a dedication to actually getting the ball inside. Now by getting the ball inside I am not just talking about Roy Hibbert in the post, I mean I’ve seen several plays that were designed to get Danny looks right at the rim and several driving attempts by all of our point guards that cause defenders to collapse thus opening up outside shots. This is in contrast to seasons past where we tended to try to hit from the outside to open up the interior.

                            I have seen two big players on the floor for the majority of the time and only once that I can think of that he had either Danny or Posey (pick your choice as to which one) in there being the 4 for an extended time frame.

                            Since Murphy has been gone he has not punished Josh for not hitting shots and has rewarded him with extended play due to his ability to defend and rebound.
                            The defense has improved as I think we are harder to score on right now than what we were & again I give the credit to Jim for actually having the faith to stay with the bigger lineup and resisting his natural urge to go small. Both Hansbrough & McRoberts are better defenders than Troy was and neither of them gets pushed around.

                            Jim already has a defined role for our first round draft choice and not just any role either as he is now the 6th or 7th man coming off of the bench and has shown a willingness to stay with him for extended minutes and late in games.

                            In other words what I am saying is that so far in the pre-season he has been coaching in a manner to which I don’t find odd or alien. Don’t get me wrong we still don’t have enough discipline on offense and our shot selection is to free flowing and yes I still worry that I will see long extended minutes by Jeff Foster & James Posey but so far so good. Jim has said it and so far anyway he has backed it up.

                            So I would like to take the time to ask my fellow O’Brien skeptics to take a breath and not blow a gasket after every loss at the beginning of the season. As long as Jim sticks with the plan to play bigger and develop the younger players and we lose because we are not good enough talent wise I don’t think any of us will have much to say.

                            However the caveat to that is this, as long as he sticks with the plan. If by game 5 I can’t tell if Mike Dunleavy or James Posey is the power forward while Jeff Foster mans the middle for extended minutes then all bets are off.

                            In the meantime I offer détente over the Jim O’Brien war.
                            I think I'm ready for a cease fire. In fact, I have not a care in the world. Bring on a Foster, Posey and Dunleavy frontcourt...with TJ and D Jones on the perimeter launching bricks. Go ahead, make my day! My issue with JOb had far more to do with his troy than anything else. The fact you see a different style of play was all I ever wanted.

                            Ok...maybe that would be a nightmare too....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: My Jim O'Brien thread...

                              Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
                              42 Vin Baker F 6-11 232 November 23, 1971 9 University of Hartford
                              4 Tony Battie C-F 6-11 230 February 11, 1976 5 Texas Tech University
                              30 Mark Blount C 7-0 230 November 30, 1975 2 University of Pittsburgh
                              9 J.R. Bremer G 6-2 185 September 19, 1980 R St. Bonaventure University
                              5 Kedrick Brown G 6-7 222 March 18, 1981 1 Okaloosa-Walton Community College
                              11 Mark Bryant F-C 6-9 245 April 25, 1965 14 Seton Hall University
                              12 Bimbo Coles G 6-1 180 April 22, 1968 12 Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
                              7 Tony Delk G 6-1 189 January 28, 1974 6 University of Kentucky
                              43 Grant Long F 6-8 225 March 12, 1966 14 Eastern Michigan University
                              0 Walter McCarty F 6-10 230 February 1, 1974 6 University of Kentucky
                              31 Mikki Moore C 6-11 225 November 4, 1975 4 University of Nebraska
                              34 Paul Pierce F 6-6 230 October 13, 1977 4 University of Kansas
                              41 Bruno Sundov C 7-2 220 February 10, 1980 4
                              8 Antoine Walker F 6-8 224 August 12, 1976 6 University of Kentucky
                              55 Eric Williams F 6-8 220 July 17, 1972 7 Providence College
                              11 Shammond Williams G 6-1 201 April 5, 1975 4 University of North Carolina
                              45 Ruben Wolkowyski F 6-10 270 September 30, 1973 1


                              no talent??? he had talent lol he had more than some teams who make the playoffs had
                              Are you seriously looking at that roster and seeing an ECF team?

                              Comment

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