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Re: So What Are Your Expectations For The Pacers?
That is the way the NBA works, how long do you want to keep JOB until you figure that his plan is not working? He is been here for three years already and that is more than enough to see if he is the right coach and as you know I don't think he is.@WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!
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Re: So What Are Your Expectations For The Pacers?
I don't know everyone is so eager to throw a new coach into a situation that probably won't produce more than 42 wins anyway...
If we brought a new coach in, you guys would just be complaining about him by the end of this season as well. It's not a good situation to bring a new coach into.
Wait til next offseason, and then make the move.
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Re: So What Are Your Expectations For The Pacers?
The problem is that every other reason for such a thing is tossed out as an excuse, which makes it a tautology: "the only valid reason for losing is a bad coach, the team was losing, therefore the coach is bad".
That is the reason I want specific "why" about how come JOB is the sole reason for those losses, and the "why" needs to be grounded in something other than a sound bite. Lord knows I wrangle with Seth, but he gives sound reasons for his poor, misguided opinions
At a certain point calling everything but what supports your own opinion an "excuse" is just an excuse...BillS
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...Comment
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Re: So What Are Your Expectations For The Pacers?
in this particular case absolutley yes
There are always going to be room for "excuses" but judging the Jim O'Brien era as a whole, I think he should have been let go at the all star break last year
I also think if he were in a bigger market he would have been fired at minimum, 2 years ago
I struggle to see anything in the last two years that would leave me to believe there is progress, in fact I seen a downward spiral
Please remeber it was Larry Bird himself who said after firing RC that "coaches get tuned out by their players after 3 years" so Bird essentially went against his own beliefs in extending Jim
I do think, however, that might have been more of a Simon call thoughSittin on top of the world!Comment
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Re: So What Are Your Expectations For The Pacers?
I think we have more defense at PF with Tyler and maybe Josh plus we have PG leadership in Darren.
It's important to have Danny's team leadership at SF because he can do almost everything every positon is supposed to do.
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Re: So What Are Your Expectations For The Pacers?
I never said Jim was the entire reason, but this is a results orientated business, and judging by the lack of progress in my opinion, Jim needs to go. Again I take it back to sales, if my revenue stream is increasingly going downward, regardless of circumstances, I am ultimetly responsible, and will be judged on thsoe numbers regardless. In using this methology, Jim would be relieved of his dutiesThe problem is that every other reason for such a thing is tossed out as an excuse, which makes it a tautology: "the only valid reason for losing is a bad coach, the team was losing, therefore the coach is bad".
That is the reason I want specific "why" about how come JOB is the sole reason for those losses, and the "why" needs to be grounded in something other than a sound bite. Lord knows I wrangle with Seth, but he gives sound reasons for his poor, misguided opinions
At a certain point calling everything but what supports your own opinion an "excuse" is just an excuse...Sittin on top of the world!Comment
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Re: So What Are Your Expectations For The Pacers?
The part of your metaphor that you don't consider is that if the product isn't good (or there are better products available), it's a tough sell. In this case you are blaming the salesman for everything and overlooking the fact that the product itself has to improve.Comment
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Re: So What Are Your Expectations For The Pacers?
But IS Jim ultimately responsible? If the FO hasn't given him the players, or if you grant that some of those excuses are really valid reasons, and if you wouldn't be able to replace him with anyone useful for the same money, you might not let him go even if the results aren't what you want.
Not every job is measured solely by the bottom line, and those which are often shouldn't be.
In my business, if the numbers match or are better than the forecast, and if the forecast was agreed upon by management and those responsible for making the numbers, then those responsible for making the numbers have done their jobs.
By your methodology, if a great coach is suddenly given an all-rookie team, he'd be fired because his numbers went down and he is ultimately responsible. It's more complex than that.
What you are saying, I think, is that you believe that there were available coaches at no major salary increase who wanted the job with the Pacers who would have done a better job. To say you could get a coach for the same money who would do the same would essentially be advocating change for change's sake.BillS
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...Comment
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Re: So What Are Your Expectations For The Pacers?
I agree with you, but let's not act like that's what has happened or is happening.
Jim has gotten how many new players in the past 3 years?
EDIT: And I think we would see a better Pacers team with a different coach, obviously depending on the coach. But even Jim's offensive system doesn't mesh well with his players.
If Mark Jackson, because he isn't proven and isn't willing to prove himself, is the other option I'd rather stay with Jim. (Ouch that hurts.) But a change does need to be made, and as soon as possible. If that means after this season due to contract reasons, then so be it, but he should have never had his option picked up in the first place.Last edited by Since86; 10-12-2010, 02:37 PM.“Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.Comment
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Re: So What Are Your Expectations For The Pacers?
Were the new players any good? Were the new players better than the ones they replaced?Comment
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Re: So What Are Your Expectations For The Pacers?
Who would we have picked up for a single year? Who would want to take the team not knowing who would be GM if he signed a multi-year contract and therefore not know what players he'd have to work with after his first year?
As I've said, there are more reasons than just that bottom line.
The real irony is that I don't particularly care for JOB as a coach, but the circumstances aren't such that there were better or more effective coaches waiting in the wings without other highly probably disadvantages or problems.BillS
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...Comment
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